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Could this be our future?
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Re: Could this be our future?
Nice 90 Sport Quattro with the RS2 bumper...I have a S2 bumper on mine.
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Re: Could this be our future?
Good article by Barry,
I covered this topic in detail in May of 2010 with my article here,
Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips
Here's the pertinent part that explains why to dampsand Factory Paint instead of compounding the conventional way using compounds and rotary buffers,
 Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
Damp-sanding Factory Paint
Because the factory finish on new cars, truck and s.u.v.s are thin, sanding and compounding should only be used to correct serious below surface defects as an option and if you have confidence the paint has not been sanded or compounded previously and of course, confidence in your skills and abilities.
Enables you to buff cooler
The theory behind using Meguiar's Unigrit Sanding and Finishing discs to sand thin, factory paint is that while it adds a step in most detailing processes, it saves time overall because it enables you to remove the defects faster by requiring less passes with your rotary buffer and aggressive compounds. This reduces heat, enabling you to buff cooler and can also help to reduce deep swirls.
More Control
Without sanding, you don't know how deep the defects are so you don't know how aggressive you need to get in order to remove them, the only way to find out is by trial and error. With Unigrit Sanding and Finishing Discs, you have control over the depth of the sanding marks thus you have more control over the compounding step.
Keep in mind that all the UV protection for the basecoat is suspended in the clear coat or clear layer of paint sprayed over the basecoat or colored layer paint. You need approximately 1.3 mils of clear to provide enough UV protection to protect the color coat from failing. New cars come with approximately 2.0 mils of clear paint so you have a little wiggle room for sanding and buffing but always follow the practice of,
"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"
Damp-sanding factory paint usually mans sanding on very hard paint because the paint was baked-on at high temperatures at the manufacturing plant and is no longer fresh and could be anywhere from months to years to decades old. This means the paint is fully cured, fully dried and fully hardened.
I also taught the first class that I know of that addressed this idea of sanding instead of compounding at the 2010 Mobil Tech Expo.
Meguiar's introduced their Unigrit Discs in the winter of 2009 and in 2010 I think I taught the first class on this topic Barry's writing about now at the Mobil Tech Expo in Clearwater Florida, here's the original thread on the AGO forum for the class...
Autogeek Classes at 2010 Mobile Tech Expo - Instructor Mike Phillips
And here's the pictures and comments thread from the class...
Pictures from Mobile Tech Expo 2010
The system was so new that the backing plates provided to my by Jason Rose were pre-production and had no part numbers or logos on them...
I also cover this topic of dampsanding for both industries in my Detailing Boot Camp Classes...
- Dampsanding for fresh paint in body shops
- Dampsanding for factory paint for detailers
Man time flies when you're having fun...
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Re: Could this be our future?
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Re: Could this be our future?
Here's another article on how easy it is to remove sanding marks when finishing out with the 3M 5000 Discs using the Makita BO6040
Makita BO6040 Removing Sanding Marks
Earlier today I tested out the new 3M 6 inch #3000 Foam Finishing Disc now available in single packs plus the 3M 3 inch #3000 Foam Finishing Discs for doing spot repairs, sanding next to edges or in and around tight areas. When I was done I then re-dampsanded the entire panel using the new 3M #5000 Foam Finishing Discs and posted a thread about them here,
3M Trizact 6 Inch 3000 Grit Performance Sanding Disc 01459 - Singles
Since I had a black test panel already for compounding I thought today is a great day to test out the Makita BO6040 Orbital Sander/Polisher.
The backing plate measures approximately 5 3/4" in diameter so 6.5" buffing pads are going to be a good match.
For this test I'm going to use 3 Pro Grade Body Shop products that will tackle just about any product that ever drives into your shop or garage with just about any pad and tool combination known to man.
This is the only picture I took that is out of focus, (sorry), but you get the idea, I primed the 6.5" Orange CCS Foam Cutting Pad and then placed 3 drops of M105 on the pad.
I put the tool into the Forced Rotation Mode and on the highest speed setting which is the 5.0 speed setting and made about 8 section passes and removed all the #5000 Grit sanding marks easily.
Next I primed a 6.5" CCS White Polishing Pad and then placed 3 drops of product on the pad and re-polished the same section.
Here's a tip...
Always wipe compounds and polishes off while they are still wet and the polishing oils will act as lubricants to aid in removal without marring.
Then I sprayed the paint with Diamondite Perfect Vision Glass Cleaner to strip off any polishing oils to inspect the finish.
You can see just a little micro-marring... this is very soft paint so this is normal for a white polishing pad on this paint system.
Next I primed a 6.5" Gray Finishing pad and buffed the paint again...
Looking good! I'll let the pictures do the talking...
On the Autogeek.net Store
Makita BO6040 Orbital Sander/ Polisher
The Makita BO6040 Orbital Polisher is an ingenious polisher that works as an orbital polisher or a forced rotation orbital polisher. The random orbital action is great for finish sanding while the forced rotation setting is fantastic for aggressive swirl and defect removal. The Makita BO6040 Orbital Polisher is like having two machines in one!
An orange knob on the Makita Polisher makes it possible to switch back and forth between random orbital and orbital forced rotation. Just be sure the machine is off when you make the switch. The speed control on the back of the machine allows you to operate at anywhere from 1600 to 5800 OPM, no matter what mode you are in. Use the random orbit mode for gentle polish and wax application and buffing. Use the forced rotation orbit for compounding and scratch removal.
One machine does it all!
Best of all, when the Makita BO6040 is in forced rotation mode, it still orbits to provide the same safeguard against burning the paint as random orbital setting. This lessens the risk of producing swirls while still giving you the cutting power of a forced rotation orbital polisher. You should still take great care when operating the machine in this setting by starting at a low speed. We recommend starting at 2 until you are more comfortable.
The Makita BO6040 Polisher comes with a one year factory warranty and a handy carrying case. It also comes with a wrench to remove the included 6” Hook & Loop backing plate.
The Makita BO6040 replaces two machines, making it a great value. If you do not currently own a buffer, or you are not sure if your vehicle’s scratches will come out with an ordinary dual-action polisher, the Makita BO6040 is an excellent choice. Start out with the random orbital setting and a low-cut polish. The general rule is if your fingernail catches the scratch, you’ll need to do some compounding to totally remove it. If the random orbital setting is not working, just turn the machine off, turn the orange knob, and turn the polisher back on. The orbital motion with forced rotation will level the scratch until it is completely eliminated.
If you only buy one polisher, make it the Makita BO6040 Dual-Action Polisher. This one machine will take care of all your detailing jobs, large or small, with just the turn of a knob.
- 2-mode switch for "random orbit" action (finish sanding) and "random orbit with forced rotation" action (aggressive sanding and polishing)
- Superior engineering and design reduces vibration by 20% and noise levels almost 2 to 1 over the competition
- Variable speed control dial (1,600 - 5,800 OPM; 180 - 670 RPM) for various applications.
- Compact tool height (5-3/16") increases efficiency and maneuverability.
- Small diameter barrel grip for optimum comfort and control.
- Uses convenient hook & loop abrasive sanding discs and accessories (hook & loop backing plate included).
- Efficient through-the-pad dust collection system with built in dust port for a cleaner work environment.
- Includes: 1 ea. Abrasive Disc (#120; 794610-1), Hex Wrench (783203-8), Rubber Pad (193286-4), Wrench Holder (410047-0) and Plastic Tool Case (824591-5).
Comes with a nice Plastic Tool Case too!
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Re: Could this be our future?
Here's the official 3M FAQ
3™ Trizact™ Foam Discs 5000 FAQs
#5000 Grit Trizact Foam Finishing Discs
Will Trizact 5000 allow me to skip compounding?
Skipping compound will depend on several factors. These factors include the brand of clear, cure time, temperature, age of clear coat, and the vehicle color. Before skipping compound and sending the job out to a customer it is highly recommended to go through the process, clean the surface with a degreaser and inspect. Below are a
few tips to help the opportunity to eliminate compounding:
1. Fresh clear (less than 12-18 hours)
2. Small area sanding
3. 5-6 passes over all areas with both Trizact steps
4. Run polisher at 1400-1800 rpm
5. New foam polishing pad
How long will the Trizact 5000 disc last?
4-5 panels (feedback from field test)
Is this just another step in the process in addition to the current process?
No, chances are good that you will be able to eliminate, if not reduce your
compounding by 50%. This will help keep the shop clean, reduce clean up time in the
detail bay, and increase the overall quality of the job.
What throw/orbit should be used when sanding with Trizact 5000?
For best results use a 3/16” orbit or higher with all Trizact products. 3/32” orbit tools do not allow the Trizact abrasive to cut. Larger orbit tools will help finish the job quicker and allow the abrasive to completely refine the previous scratches.
Can Trizact 5000 be used dry?
No, Trizact foam discs are meant to be used “damp” to avoid instant loading
How much water should I use?
Generally you will need less water for the Trizact 5000 when compared to the Trizact P3000. For every 2 sq ft area, about 5 sprays from a spray bottle will be adequate. If the disc dries up, apply water as needed.
Is it acceptable to use soap in my water source for the discs?
Yes, a mild soap can be used in the water with the Trizact discs. If the soap is not mild, it may start to dissolve the foam backing over the life of the disc. Most car wash soaps are acceptable.
Is a soft interface pad required for Trizact 5000?
No, a soft interface pad in not required, but it is recommended. The user will get a finer finish with the Trizact 5000 when using a soft interface pad. Using an interface pad will assure there are no course scratches left behind on body lines and curved surfaces.
What sort of sanding pattern works best?
Sanding in a north-south and east-west pattern with 50% overlap for 5-6 passes will help assure every spot has been refined by the Trizact 5000.
Is it required to use Trizact P3000 before using Trizact 5000?
Yes, the Trizact 5000 was designed to remove Trizact P3000 scratches. If you want to increase your chances of eliminating compound, it is required to use Trizact P3000 to refine your previous scratches prior to using the Trizact 5000. If you are just using the 5000 alone to remove oxidation or light scratches, Trizact P3000 is not required.
Can Trizact 5000 be used by hand?
Yes, Trizact 5000 can be used by hand or on an orbital sander. If there is not air supplied in your work station, all Trizact products can be used by hand. We also offer hand pad accessories to help hold the discs. Be sure to spend an adequate amount of time sanding to remove previous scratches. Sanding by hand will be slower than sanding with a tool.
Can Trizact 5000 be used to remove oxidation and light scratches on aged paint?
Yes, Trizact 5000 is a great disc to use for removing oxidation and light scratches. In most cases you will need to use compound after 5000 due to the paint being well cured and tough to remove.
How well does the Trizact 5000 work on Ceramic Clear Coats?
Working with ceramic clear coat tends to be very difficult. In this case, you will not be able to skip compounding, but the 5000 can help reduce compounding time on those hard coatings.
What speed should I run the polisher at over the Trizact 5000 scratches?
Recommended speed for the polisher is 1400-1800 rpm
If I still have to compound after using Trizact 5000, will I have to use a wool pad?
No, a wool pad will not be needed to remove the fine scratches left over from the 5000. One quick application of compound with a foam pad will remove all the remaining scratches. Using foam will also significantly reduce swirl marks in the surface.
Can Trizact 5000 be used on Chrome? Aluminum?
Yes, Trizact 5000 can be used to remove light scratches from chrome and aluminum. Be cautious on chrome as most plating is very thin. Follow up with a chrome/aluminum polish.
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Re: Could this be our future?
Anyone considering wetsanding, colorsanding, hand sanding or even dry sanding factory paint of a custom paint job should read this first as it dicusses the differences and the risks.
Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint
And anyone interested in sanding real cars, not hood, cookie sheets or even rental cars, you're opportunity is coming up...
1972 Cutlass - Wetsand, Cut and Buff for a Show Car Finish
I have a 1972 Cutlass coming up that needs to have a show car finish and this means sanding the paint flat to remove all orange peel and creating swirl free finish without any Pigtails, Tracers or Burn-throughs.
Anyone interested in seeing this project done? How about helping out?
I can do it all by myself no problem, even enjoy doing this type of work but I could also have it here for a dedicated class on,
- How to use a rotary buffer
- How to hand sand
- How to machine sand
Most classes on this topic use demo hoods or rental cars or some other type of panel. I'm the only guy in this industry that I know of that actually has provided the real deal to anyone willing to travel to Stuart, Florida.
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