i am disappointed from my 21 MK2

[aderet]

hey guys!since day one i am trying to convince myself and others that my rupes 21 mk2 is the best thing but you know what? i was wrong,its a big disappointed ..
i have it for a year and barley use it, she can cover big and straight surface but on curves? a waste of time...mark 2 or not it's stall and no matter what Technic i use-i have to spend much more time then what i do with my 3401.


another problem s the fact she is killing pads- the original rupes pads on a rupes machine is so sensitive...the torq and the heat is destroying the pads.


another problem is that she "flays off" pads, the Velcro just does not steak the the BC with the original pads.
BTW-i barley speed up more then 4..


for me the rupes was a waste of money.

[tpr1634]

I have a original 15 Rupes and I feel the same way, no balls and over rated at that time. I will reach for my 3401 every time and I like Rupes but with the stalling and I tried thin pads and tried different techniques for my money it was a waste and as we know they are not cheap. I even wanted to try the mk2 15 but I figured I was only going to get burnt again. Sorry Rupes just the way it is build one that doesn’t stall so easy and you have a winner.

[dlc95]

It took a a few cars to really understand the concept of using the Rupes tools.

On page two of Mike Phillips' how to book - How To Use The Rupes Bigfoot Paint Polishing System, he previews his 11 tips for using the tool - "Forget everything you've ever learned and know from your experience using other polishers". And he was right. Like I've mentioned before, the book was a huge part of my being comfortable with this system.

Then there is the 3401. The whole technique using just about any random orbital - regardless of how powerful the tool is, and how well developed your technique - is all but unnecessary with the 3401. Removing this variable from the equation is a huge benefit for some people, as the motion of the pad is reliably consistent - regardless of the shape of the panel being worked.

To get the Rupes technique down might take more time than one might want, or has time to put in. I say make no apologies, and use the set up that works best for you.

[DBAILEY]

What made you think a 21 with that giant foot print as far as pad movement would have been a good choice? Its not like its a nimble machine for use on curvy panels. It was meant for big flat panels. Its not a good choice for use as an all around polisher.

[aderet]

What made you think a 21 with that giant foot print as far as pad movement would have been a good choice? Its not like its a nimble machine for use on curvy panels. It was meant for big flat panels. Its not a good choice for use as an all around polisher.

i did not expect that the 21 will be good on tight places. i was kind of upset when i had to put to much attention in order to make it not stall on a curve bottom of a flat door...

[LEDetailing]

I was a little disappointed at first with my Rupes 15 Mk2, then I learned how and when to use it. Now, I cannot imagine trying to polish without my Rupes.

I would like a 3401, but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

Are you using the washer mod?

The MK2 has a tremendous amount of more power compared to the first gen.

If you have no tried the washer mod, This is the answer to your problem. That machine on speed 4 is just a complete monster. the contour has to be pretty drastic if you can not get it to spin. You also have to learn how to manipulate the machine so you can maintain pad rotation.

The washer mod vs no washer mod debate will always go on, There are some people that say it is not needed.

To me it is like driving with a e-brake on, Why limit the power of the machine. The shroud restricts rotation and this can cause excess pad stall in curve areas.

[aderet]

Are you using the washer mod?

The MK2 has a tremendous amount of more power compared to the first gen.

If you have no tried the washer mod, This is the answer to your problem. That machine on speed 4 is just a complete monster. the contour has to be pretty drastic if you can not get it to spin. You also have to learn how to manipulate the machine so you can maintain pad rotation.

The washer mod vs no washer mod debate will always go on, There are some people that say it is not needed.

To me it is like driving with a e-brake on, Why limit the power of the machine. The shroud restricts rotation and this can cause excess pad stall in curve areas.

i am using the washer mod on and off for the last year. i have not decide what is better for me.i think that i can control the machine better with out the washer mod. she can be brutal with it and not necessarily correct better.

[Todd@RUPES]

This is a difficult thread for me to respond to, because I don't want to make it sound like I am blaming you. I hate that you are not getting the results you want with the Mark II, but I am also fairly confident, unless it is a defective tool, there are a few technique adjustments that can be made for you to get the most out of your investment.

One of my job descriptions as Senior Technical Advisor for RUPES is to develop training protocols and to teach classes of people how to use our tools. I have spoken to a few guys who have, unfortunately, had a similar experience, and with just a little instruction we are able to get them up and running.

1) Make sure that the interface between the shroud and the backing plate is lubricated. A drop of vaseline or dielectric grease will do fine. Put a smudge on the backing plate, rotate the backing plate... move on.

2) Drink a sip of coffee, or a glass, or a 24-oz. container and prepare for number 3...

3) Had your coffee? Awake? Good... here we go.

The biggest issue I see with people suffering from poor performance with a large-diameter orbital polisher is that they are not holding the pad flat to the surface. The center of the part (or which ever part of the pad is being used if you are edging) should be near-flat at all times. I have seen many detailers and professionals "think" they are flat, but they aren't even close. I have taken pictures to show them, videos, etc and the look on their face is priceless. IF you have a friend who can video tape you, from a low angle, polishing a panel, you might gain great insight.

Why do I think this is the problem you are suffering from? Because of the problems you are having with pad life and heat are usually caused by either A) too much down pressure or B) interface angle.

Imagine the backing plate is moving in a large Mr. Myagi motion above the paint. Large circles/orbits (with or without rotation). Now we insert a pad in this space, perfectly even with the paint. It will "scrub" in the same motion as the backing plate with little deflection. Now if we angle 'northern' edge of the backing plate downward just a handful of degrees, each time the backing plate orbits to the north, it is compressing the foam, and each time it angles to the south, it is pulling the back edge of the foam from the paint.

The backing plate is literally 'punching' the paint, and the foam is caught in the middle. The larger the orbit, the more energy the pad absorbs, the more heat begins to build, the more the foam structure looses rigidity, and the cycle repeats until you are frustrated with the performance of the tool AND the life of the pads.

In addition to using a video camera, I have a technique that I teach people that seems to help... But before sharing that, consider this point. If you watch a painter paint a panel, they break their risk as they sweep side-to-side. This keeps the spray gun perpendicular to the paint for even application, like a robotic arm traveling on a rack. When we polish, we should break our wrists in a similar fashion as we extend outward, otherwise we will naturally angle the polisher the further we expand outside our shoulder width. If you are "white-knuckle" gripping the polisher and holding it tight you will naturally induce angle as you move across the paint, and will accidentally angle the polisher even when you think you are flat.

So....

Mark the edge of the backing plate with a marker so you can visualize rotation. Now, set the polisher on a flat or near-flat surface (just to learn), use a 7-inch pad without a washer mod (but make sure the interface is lubricated). Using speed 3, depress the trigger and use the trigger lock....

Now we are going to polish the panel using just the thumb of one hand and the finger of another, barely holding the tool. Whichever hand you use to "grip" the leading edge of the tool, use just your thumb to apply barely enough down pressure to hold the foam to the paint. Whichever hand you use to grip the handle, use just your index finger to lift the handle slightly (since in operation it is SLIGHTLY tail heavy). Once running, BigFoot Random Orbital Polishers will "self-level" if we just help them along with two fingers and the lightest of touch.

Other polishing movements, like gear-driven and rotary, require a firmer grip because of the steering, and thus can create some bad habits with random orbital polishers. Keep your grip light and let the polisher do all of the work. Move it around the paint, watch your backing plate marker, make small adjustments. In a few minutes, you will "get it".

When I have instructed people who suffer from similar performance issues, they usually have a death grip on the head of the tool and any movement induces angle. The large-diameter random orbital tools will do the work for you.

I hope this helps. If not, shoot me an email at my first name and last initial @RUPESUSA.com, and I will give you my cell phone number.

Yours in better polishing,
Todd

[aderet]

This is a difficult thread for me to respond to, because I don't want to make it sound like I am blaming you. I hate that you are not getting the results you want with the Mark II, but I am also fairly confident, unless it is a defective tool, there are a few technique adjustments that can be made for you to get the most out of your investment.

One of my job descriptions as Senior Technical Advisor for RUPES is to develop training protocols and to teach classes of people how to use our tools. I have spoken to a few guys who have, unfortunately, had a similar experience, and with just a little instruction we are able to get them up and running.

1) Make sure that the interface between the shroud and the backing plate is lubricated. A drop of vaseline or dielectric grease will do fine. Put a smudge on the backing plate, rotate the backing plate... move on.

2) Drink a sip of coffee, or a glass, or a 24-oz. container and prepare for number 3...

3) Had your coffee? Awake? Good... here we go.

The biggest issue I see with people suffering from poor performance with a large-diameter orbital polisher is that they are not holding the pad flat to the surface. The center of the part (or which ever part of the pad is being used if you are edging) should be near-flat at all times. I have seen many detailers and professionals "think" they are flat, but they aren't even close. I have taken pictures to show them, videos, etc and the look on their face is priceless. IF you have a friend who can video tape you, from a low angle, polishing a panel, you might gain great insight.

Why do I think this is the problem you are suffering from? Because of the problems you are having with pad life and heat are usually caused by either A) too much down pressure or B) interface angle.

Imagine the backing plate is moving in a large Mr. Myagi motion above the paint. Large circles/orbits (with or without rotation). Now we insert a pad in this space, perfectly even with the paint. It will "scrub" in the same motion as the backing plate with little deflection. Now if we angle 'northern' edge of the backing plate downward just a handful of degrees, each time the backing plate orbits to the north, it is compressing the foam, and each time it angles to the south, it is pulling the back edge of the foam from the paint.

The backing plate is literally 'punching' the paint, and the foam is caught in the middle. The larger the orbit, the more energy the pad absorbs, the more heat begins to build, the more the foam structure looses rigidity, and the cycle repeats until you are frustrated with the performance of the tool AND the life of the pads.

In addition to using a video camera, I have a technique that I teach people that seems to help... But before sharing that, consider this point. If you watch a painter paint a panel, they break their risk as they sweep side-to-side. This keeps the spray gun perpendicular to the paint for even application, like a robotic arm traveling on a rack. When we polish, we should break our wrists in a similar fashion as we extend outward, otherwise we will naturally angle the polisher the further we expand outside our shoulder width. If you are "white-knuckle" gripping the polisher and holding it tight you will naturally induce angle as you move across the paint, and will accidentally angle the polisher even when you think you are flat.

So....

Mark the edge of the backing plate with a marker so you can visualize rotation. Now, set the polisher on a flat or near-flat surface (just to learn), use a 7-inch pad without a washer mod (but make sure the interface is lubricated). Using speed 3, depress the trigger and use the trigger lock....

Now we are going to polish the panel using just the thumb of one hand and the finger of another, barely holding the tool. Whichever hand you use to "grip" the leading edge of the tool, use just your thumb to apply barely enough down pressure to hold the foam to the paint. Whichever hand you use to grip the handle, use just your index finger to lift the handle slightly (since in operation it is SLIGHTLY tail heavy). Once running, BigFoot Random Orbital Polishers will "self-level" if we just help them along with two fingers and the lightest of touch.

Other polishing movements, like gear-driven and rotary, require a firmer grip because of the steering, and thus can create some bad habits with random orbital polishers. Keep your grip light and let the polisher do all of the work. Move it around the paint, watch your backing plate marker, make small adjustments. In a few minutes, you will "get it".

When I have instructed people who suffer from similar performance issues, they usually have a death grip on the head of the tool and any movement induces angle. The large-diameter random orbital tools will do the work for you.

I hope this helps. If not, shoot me an email at my first name and last initial @RUPESUSA.com, and I will give you my cell phone number.

Yours in better polishing,
Todd

thanks for the the very detail explanation . even that i am pretty sure that the pad always flat ( i am well aware about how impotent it is ..) i will put even more attention on that.
is there any video about it in order to make it more visual ?