Year Long 3401 Production Review & Rotary Finish Compairson

[7PaintGuns]

As I had mentioned in this thread FLEX XC 3401 first options? I decided to purchase a Flex 3401 to test at work for assisting with clear coat finishing, mostly on black and really dark colors for hologram elimination. Having used a rotary buffer for many years I would say my skills are just as proficient as the next professionals. Working with recently painted panels (buffed next day) can be difficult as the paint has not fully cured and scratches very easily.

Usually holograms are not something a customer will notice or mention because most cars aren't black and the vast majority of vehicles we paint finish fantastically, but there are exceptions.

Example 1: Seasons and Time of Day
Most forum members will obviously know that a recently polished or corrected vehicle will look way better in the shade vs the sun. In the winter time, when its cold and grey here in the mid-west, holograms aren't a problem because they cant be seen. In the spring and summer months, the sun is high and holograms become much more noticeable. Autumn represents a different story. Don't ask me why, but having painted for 12 years, swirls and holograms are extremely obvious in the fall, especially in the evening. It may be because the sun is lower in the sky, it might be because there is less humidity in the air distorting the light. I'm not sure, but its obvious if you pay attention year to year.

Example 2: Higher end Vehicles
More than 3/4 of the vehicle delivered from our shop are higher end vehicles. Not Lamborghini and Ferrari, but normal DD vehicles involved in accidents such as Lexus, Mercedes, Ford (Mustang GT, Shelby ROUSH) Acura, BMW, you name it. Obviously these customers can be very picky and they should be. They pay their insurance and want their care repaired properly. Saying that, all delivered cars are finished to the best quality physically possible.

I have written all this because I want to spend 2016 periodically updating this thread regarding rotary and dual action buffers/polishers and their finishing qualities at my experience level. This will include Winter/Spring/Summer/Fall for a full spectrum of situations and conditions. I will be doing this at my leisure throughout the year but updating when I can. I'm mainly doing this to log my own experiences and for my own knowledge, but thought some members would like to see what I come up with. This wont be a perfectly written thread and there will be a lot of variable so you will have to take this for what it is.

[7PaintGuns]

The only buffers/polishers in this thread that will be used unless otherwise specified...

DEWALT Variable Speed Polisher/3M Hookit SBS Backup Pad DWP849

FLEX XC 3401 VRG Polisher/The FLEX XC3401 4 Inch Changeable Backing Plate System/Flex XC 3401 VRG 5.5 inch Backing Plate

[Zubair]

That Dewalt looks huge! Flex looks stunning in gloss black.

[Mike Phillips]

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[Mike Phillips]

To 7PaintGuns,

As you know, having the right tool and pads is only part of the equation. The most important factor in my opinion is to have the best abrasive technology. This is vitally important when it comes to finishing with a dual action polisher otherwise you'll leave tiny scratches in the paint from the abrasive technology.

These tiny scratches are called,

DA Haze (dual action polisher haze)

Tick Marks (a term coined by Meguiar's chemists)

Micro-marring (general term for the scouring appearance caused by low quality abrasive technology used with orbital polishers)


All three of these terms describe the same scratch pattern caused by low quality abrasive technology when used with dual action orbital polishers.

There are other things that cause scratch patterns when using dual action polishers like the pad but keep in mind it's the ABRASIVES that come into contact with the paint surface FIRST not the pad.

Note: Holograms is a term to describe a very specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint by the misuse of a rotary buffer.


Because you paint cars my guess is you're familiar with and use a lot of body shop grade and body shop safe compounds and polishes. Nothing wrong with this just make sure by doing some testing that the products you choose to use either,

1. Are formulated and recommended for use with dual action polishers

And/Or

2. Visually appear to work to your expectations upon your inspection after use.



Here's a little article I wrote on this topic. The article is the result of me answering questions for people NOT getting good results when using the Flex 3401 and tracing the ROOT CAUSE of the issue back to the abrasive technology chosen not the tool or the pad.

For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions



For what it's worth... if a person were to read enough of my articles or replies to others questions they will see that I use the below two words a lot when helping others to troubleshoot root causes of paint finishing problems.


abrasive technology

[7PaintGuns]

12/5/15

Winter Time

This is my first winter test and is only an initial rotary vs dual action test.

Note: This is my first time using the 3401 and the Lake county Hybrid Pads.

Subject Panel: Hood/Nissan KH3

Clear Coat: ChromaPremier Pro 74500S Productive Clearcoat
Activator: ChromaPremier Pro 14305S Normal Activator
Reducer: ChromaPremier Pro 14375S Fast Reducer

Compound: 3M Perfect-It EX Rubbing Compound 36060
Polish: 3M Perfect-It 3000 Machine Polish 06064
Polish: 3M Perfect-It 3000 Ultrafine Machine Polish 06068

Dry Time: 10 hours after bake


Panel was first sanded with 3M 1500 wet/dry paper followed by 3M (02087) Trizact Hookit 3" P3000 Grit Foam Disc and3M (30662) Hookit Trizact 6" 5000 Grit Foam Disc on a DA sander with a 3M (05777) Hookit 6" x 1/2" x 3/4" Soft Interface Pad.

After 5000


My first test with the DA was with the 5 inch Hybrid Blue Light Cutting Pad used at speed 6 and 6 passes


Post correction


I decided the blue pad had not provided enough correction to move on to polishing so I moved a step down to the 5 inch Hybrid Orange Heavy Cutting Pad at speed 6 and 6 passes.

Back up to Blue at speed 6 and 6 passes(still using compound) (unfortunately I forgot to take a picture of the orange correction to the blue)

Then the 5 inch Hybrid White Polishing Pad at speed 6 at 6 passes and speed 5/4.5 4 passes (with compound)


At this point I decided this was the best stepping process prior to polishing but can/will be adjusted based on suggestions for these particular conditions and polishes and pads.

Cleaning the White pad "on the fly" I attached it to my rotary, soaked it with detail spray and blew it out with a pencil style adjustable air blower.


Primed pad with polish.


Post white pad with polish at speed 5 with 6 passes and speed 4 with 4 passes.




5 inch Hybrid Black Finishing Pad with polish at speed 5 with 6 passes and speed 4 with 4 passes then speed 3 and 2 with 3 passes.






5 Inch Hybrid Power Finish Red Pad with Ultrafine Machine Polish at speed 2 with 6 passes and speed 1 with 2 passes.




Additional notes:
1. As I continue this thread I will obviously employ a better picture structure to better inform and illustrate my process but will always be a work in progress.

2. My camera is terrible and will need to invest in something with a better focus and higher resolution.

3. My 3M inspection light has a fan for cooling which blew dust on my panels after wipe down. Not something I want to fight while taking pictures.

4. Noticed my first post was littered with grammatical problems.

Not bad for a first test run in my opinion. I will post the rotary results from this test later today.

[7PaintGuns]

To 7PaintGuns,

As you know, having the right tool and pads is only part of the equation. The most important factor in my opinion is to have the best abrasive technology. This is vitally important when it comes to finishing with a dual action polisher otherwise you'll leave tiny scratches in the paint from the abrasive technology.

These tiny scratches are called,

DA Haze (dual action polisher haze)

Tick Marks (a term coined by Meguiar's chemists)

Micro-marring (general term for the scouring appearance caused by low quality abrasive technology used with orbital polishers)


All three of these terms describe the same scratch pattern caused by low quality abrasive technology when used with dual action orbital polishers.

There are other things that cause scratch patterns when using dual action polishers like the pad but keep in mind it's the ABRASIVES that come into contact with the paint surface FIRST not the pad.

Note: Holograms is a term to describe a very specific scratch pattern inflicted into paint by the misuse of a rotary buffer.


Because you paint cars my guess is you're familiar with and use a lot of body shop grade and body shop safe compounds and polishes. Nothing wrong with this just make sure by doing some testing that the products you choose to use either,

1. Are formulated and recommended for use with dual action polishers

And/Or

2. Visually appear to work to your expectations upon your inspection after use.



Here's a little article I wrote on this topic. The article is the result of me answering questions for people NOT getting good results when using the Flex 3401 and tracing the ROOT CAUSE of the issue back to the abrasive technology chosen not the tool or the pad.

For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions



For what it's worth... if a person were to read enough of my articles or replies to others questions they will see that I use the below two words a lot when helping others to troubleshoot root causes of paint finishing problems.


abrasive technology

I agree 100% Mike. Fortunately I have most of my supplies provided to me and an organization that wants the best for their customers. With this thread I hope to evaluate what products I need for the best results possible, and then go to my manager with that information. The best way to do that is with my own personal evaluation with multiple tests and results, and with our refinishing products, but not being limited to/by our current polishing and finishing products. Also, I implore all forum members with any experience to post their thoughts and comments as I do this testing. I'm always searching for better advice and information. That's why I'm posting it and that's why I'm here!

[7PaintGuns]

Flex looks stunning in gloss black.

Thanks! It's actually Lexus 217 in semi-gloss.

[Paul A.]

Subscribed!

Thanks 7PG for sharing your log with us. Very helpful and considerate. I NEVER stop learning.

[Boejoula]

Subscribed as well. Can't wait to see what this thread has to offer. I too am always trying to lean something new