For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions

[Mike Phillips]

For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions


A common question I get asked via e-mail, a thread posted to the forum, a question posted to one of our YouTube videos or PM and also on my Facebook page will go like this,

Hi Mike,

I've read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos but I'm still getting holograms or haze left in the paint, especially on darker colored cars? What am I doing wrong?

Usually the first thing I'll ask the person what they are using, as in, what

• Tools
• Pads
• Products

There’s always a segment of these queries where the person is using a dual action polisher with foam pads, so they're good to go in this area but they're using products that are intended for, formulated for and designed for use with a rotary buffer.

Now I'm not a chemist and never claim to be but I like to give reputable manufactures the benefit of the doubt when they state right on the labels of their products what type of tool the product is recommended to be used with.

There are a lot of different types of abrasive technology on the market and some of this abrasive technology is intended specifically to be used with a rotary buffer and almost always in the refinishing industry.

The normal tool used in the refinishing industry is the rotary buffer. After cars are painted, IF they are go be sanded, after sanding a rotary buffer is used with a compound, polish and sometimes even a glaze to buff the paint before the car is returned to the customer.

This almost always leaves holograms in the paint but that's how this industry operates. Most "customers" don't know the difference between swirls and squirrels so for most body shop it's not an issue.



Big picture is this...

Products designed for use with rotary buffers and targeted at the refinishing industry doesn't mean the same products when used with any type of dual action polisher will create a customer pleasing finish no matter what pad is used nor the skill of the person doing the work.

The reason why is because it's the wrong abrasive technology for a tool that rotates and oscillates and the results when a person uses the wrong abrasive technology looks like this...








Holograms from a Dual Action Polisher?
Sometimes a person will describe the above DA Haze as holograms when referring to how the paint they just buffed looks.

While you can leave DA Haze trails or Patterns in a panel that follow the path the buffer was moved over the paint, these are not the same as the cuts in the paint called holograms left by the use of a rotary buffer.

In the last few weeks this topic has come up a number of times and in each case the person having problems leaving a haze-free finish is using a compound or polish that is not only intended for use with a rotary buffer but the label on the product actually states this little tidbit.

As we all know... us guys never read the directions to anything and so it goes with compounds and polishes. So when these questions are posted the various media touch points and specifically when I'm asked these types of questions, the first thing I do is ask the person, what are you using? What,

• Tool
• Pad
• Product

And when the tools is a dual action polisher, 9 times out of 10 the problem is the person. That is the person is using the wrong product.

You see, the products work great when used the right way, but when used the wrong way... well what do you expect?

So as my norm, when a topic continues to come up over and over again, I'll do my best to write an article to address the issue and then in the future, (as I always type for the future on forums), when the topic comes up, instead of typing out a reply explaining all of the above I can just post the link to the article that explains it.


Because a good picture can speak a thousand words, below are a few products we carry at Autogeek that are GREAT products. That is they are great products when used correctly with the right TOOL. Used in-correctly doesn't make them bad products, it usually means the person having the problems didn't read the directions.


Professional Line
The products show below are of products that are part of a company's offering to the refinishing industry. Refinishing industry in simple terms means body shops, the place you would take your car to have it painted after an accident or to get a custom paint job in the case of someone fixing up an older car. Most companies in the car appearance industry that offer a professional line also offer a consumer line. If you look at the directions for the products in their consumer line you'll find they are often a lot more versatile in that they can be used by hand, dual action polishers and rotary buffers.


In the below pictures, the first picture will be of a product followed by a second picture of the directions on how to use the product.

Note that when a product label states to use a buffer at a specific RPM even if the term BUFFER is kind of vague, the reference to RPMs and in the context of what the product is and the market it is formulated and targeted at means the term BUFFER is being used to describe a rotary buffer.

[Mike Phillips]

Again... all of the products shown above are great product for removing serious paint defects quickly, just be aware they are for use with rotary buffers.

If you try to use them with a dual action polisher, chances are pretty good they're remove the original defects but leave a haze behind in the paint. This haze be removed by re-polishing the paint using a product designed for use with a dual action polisher.


Now that I've posted this article, I'm going to go share the link to a guy on our YouTube channel and a guy that sent me an e-mail over the weekend.


It's all good because it's all part of the learning process...

[Mike Phillips]

Just to add for reference...


4 General Automotive Surface Care and Appearance Markets


OEM Industry
That would be when your car is being manufactures and at some paint if their is a problem with the paint the car is moved off the assembly line to what is called a polishing deck and then "products" formulated for the OEM industry are used to fix the problem.


Refinishing Industry
This is your local body shop and custom paint shop, for example after you wreck your Honda the body shop installs a new fender and paints the fender to match the car or like Max, you take your classic Mustang convertible to a Custom Shop and a guy like Wayne Carini has his guys rebuild the car and then spray a custom paint job on it. These two types of business are the "refinishing industry" as they are "re-finishing" the car.


Detail Industry
This primarily includes "Production Detailing" but also includes Show Car Detailing, we have both types of detailers on this forum and they use products formulated by just about everyone.


Enthusiast Market
This is the guy that just wants to take care of his own stuff, he's a do-it-yourselfer. Often times the do-it yourselfer does as good of work as a Pro Detailer that specializes in show car detailing and even better work than you can get in the re-finishing industry and the simple reason for this is he cares about his car and thus his work.

[FUNX650]

Just to add for reference...

4 General Automotive Surface Care and Appearance Markets

OEM Industry

Refinishing Industry

Detail Industry

Enthusiast Market

Hi Mike...
Thanks for providing this information!

Bob

[dpscoupe]

Mike, excellent info as always! It can be argued that reading and common sense are all but lost today, further proven from the need for articles like this.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike...
Thanks for providing this information!

Bob

No problemo and thank you for adding your comments to the other thread.

Mike, excellent info as always!

It can be argued that reading and common sense are all but lost today, further proven from the need for articles like this.

Well I'm guilty of not reading directions too, not just in the car care world but in life in general. I went to install some Super Hoops on my truck and after holding the brackets up to the truck body and spinning them around and scratching my head a few times I went to the Round File, dug the instructions out and then after reading them... could plainly see how to install them the right way the first time.


I kind of figure that the average person doesn't think too deeply about compound and polishes and figures they're all kind of the same in a "general sense" and as such, doesn't know or consider that different segments of this industry require different types of products for their unique needs.


For me, I never mind answering questions or helping guys to troubleshoot what's not working in their process. After a certain level is reached for how often a topic comes up it's a reflex action to write an article that I can simply copy and paste when needed instead of typing out an answer over and over again. When though of in that light, I guess I'm lazy.



Here's an example for which I will not simply copy and paste the blue clickable link at the top of this article.


See posts #1, #8 and post #9 which ties vindicates the purpose of this thread.

Not sure how you guys do it



And if you click the link below you can read a question by Dániel Erdős and my follow-up answers.


How to use the FLEX 3401 Dual Action Polisher - YouTube

I could do this all day.... -Larry the Cable Guy

[swanicyouth]

I always use (and recommend) polishes designed for the enthusiast market, because that's what I am: Wolfgang, Optimum, and PoorBoys. I also pick products by if a manufacturer participates in a forum, that way you know you can get help. This is why I've never tried M105/100/101/205.

[swanicyouth]

On the other hand, I'm wondering about products that say "use by hand". Is there a reason you can't apply these products by machine on a slow speed? I'm thinking of one product in particular.

[2shiny]

Hey mike, is it true that the menzera range is also made to be used with rotary? I don't have them (yet), but I wouldn't want to buy them and be a waste of money to use with the DA

[Mike Phillips]

I always use (and recommend) polishes designed for the enthusiast market, because that's what I am: Wolfgang, Optimum, and PoorBoys. I also pick products by if a manufacturer participates in a forum, that way you know you can get help. This is why I've never tried M105/100/101/205.

Actually, Mike Stoops and Jason Rose, both from Meguiar's post here when the need arises.

On the other hand, I'm wondering about products that say "use by hand". Is there a reason you can't apply these products by machine on a slow speed? I'm thinking of one product in particular.

That's a good question and I think that usually when a product states it's for application by hand the reason why is because it might not be formulated for use with heat.

Heat is usually only a real concern with rotary buffers. To your point, a lot of tools now days can be run at low speeds that would be equivalent to working by hand including rotary buffers like the Flex PE14, (400 RPM).

Even the DeWALT 849X and Makita 9227 dial down to 600 RPM

Always test first...