Observations/questions from first customers 2 step

[Stephan@FamouslyHot]

Hello all,

I wanted to share my experience performing my first two step polish and wax process on a customers car, and have a few questions regarding my technique?

The car detailed was a 2007 Mercedes e550 in black, overall condition was pretty dirty on the wheels, tire spray on sides of doors, moderate swirling on the whole vehicle, a few deeper scratches here and there, water spots on the hood and door panels.

The reason I am not posting this in Show n Shine is because I have more questions than displaying my results. I definitely need to get better at picture taking

Steps and products used:

Tires: Amazing Roll Off
Wheels: Meguiars DUB wheel cleaner
Wash: Meguiars Gold Class via grout sponge
Dry: Cobra waffle weave
Tar removal: DP Auto Cleanse
Decontaminate: Nanoskin Speedy sponge with ONR
Exhaust tips: CG Metal Polish + Protection. used #00 steel wool to remove stubborn areas
Tape off areas of concern
Polish: Meguiars 205 with White, then orange CCS pads, removed with yellow Cobra MF
Cleaned polish with Griots Paint Prep
Rinse Car with water, dry with waffle weave
Wax: Collinite 845, removed with yellow Cobra MF
Tire dressing: Optimum tire bond gel

My DA polisher is a Harbor Freight DA, I performed about 4-5 section passes on each section, using a speed of 4-5 for M205 and speed of 2 for collinite 845

This whole project took me 9.5 hours. I was exhausted and dog tired at the end, took me a heck of a lot longer than expected.

Questions:

1) Does it normaly take this long for a two step process?

2) I performed the service complimentary for picture taking and word of mouth start up reasons, there was a miscommunication - he thought I was also going to clean the inside and headlights. Said "usually a detail is in and out and everything else". When I inspected the exterior with him, he was kind of short, said "I trust you, don't really understand what you're explaining, but yea make her look good!". So he asked me to clean the inside of the windows while I as there. Has anyone had a client like this? Suggestions?

3) When I performed the test spot on the hood, the white LC beveled pad worked fantastic removing water spots and swirls with M205. Later throughout the detail, the swirls on the trunk and rear side panel behind the passenger door was not coming out as nice. I switched to a orange CCS pad with 205, and the results were much better. Has anyone switched pads half way through a detail? Should I have used the orange pad side by side the white pad on the hood test spot? If you all decide to change pads half way through the detail, do you go over what you previously did with the pad that didnt work as well?

4) The blue painters tape I used was the home depot brand HDX tape. It sucks ridiculously hard core sucks. It will lift up and not stick, and come off after a little bit. Does anyone have any suggestions on tape they use?

5) After polishing the vehicle, I used Griots paint prep to remove any oils left behind. The instructions said wipe immediately and do not let dry on paint. It was sunny and about 75F and I didn't have any shade so I tried to work a small section at a time. But I found out the hard way about "do not let dry" as it made streaks after I wiped with a yellow cobra MF. My technique for applying the paint prep was spraying it onto the paint, and then having a very difficult time having the towel remove all of the solution, as it caused streaking and the towel didnt absorb it so well. After going over the whole car, and rinsing with fresh water, and then drying with a cobra waffle weave towel, there were some very faint streaks on the hood and the trunk. Does anyone know how to remove those streaks? Any tips on how I should apply the paint prep for wax?

6) Do any home grown personal type business detailers who don't have a dedicated vehicle and operate as a side job carry around a personal garden hose in their car? I know some day I will probably have a customer with a crappy hose that will burst and affect the process. I do carry my own 100' extension cord and hose nozzle, but am wondering if I should carry a hose in a plastic bin.

7) My lower back was pretty darn stiff and was super sore the following day. I am hoping this was a technique issue, as I really enjoy detailing and don't want this to be a physical hinderance. I am a 27 yo male whos 165 and pretty athletic, Work all day on my feet and hardly ever sitting down. I used a little tri fold stool to perform work on the door panels and fenders. Anyone else have any lower back issues?

I think those are all my questions, on to some observations:

After reading Mike's article about applying wax by machine instead of hand, I decided to try this technique for the first time. and WOWWOWOWOW!! OMG it's SO much faster to apply wax by machine. especially with 845!

He did tip me 100$ which was very satisfying to earn that 100$ after this service. According to the service price I've set for myself is about 50$/hr. Should have been about 450$.

I noticed how helpful a 3" DA polisher might be. Onto trying to save for a rupes 75E.

The customer really liked the vehicle. I don't think he understands the process of what I did, even thought I tried to explain it. He was stoked, but not like, overly jazzed or anything.. Its hard not to think "I probably could have performed an All In One and he would be just as jazzed".

I will try to post some before and after photos after work. Thank you all for reading my book and helping me sort out my beginning business and detailing endeavors.

Stephan

[expdetailing]

Oceans05,
The 8 hrs seems quit resonable. I always underestimate how long detailing a car will take. So, don't feel bad there. Furthermore, it stings extra hard when the customer has a reaction like mr. benz had about the interior. It just shows how expectations can be disappointment makers.
Switching pads is fine, IMO. Not deviating from the plan derived from a test spot is unrealistic because severity of damage to paint is not uniform over the entire vehicle.
Personally, I avoid taping whenever possible. Most of the time, for me, it is a waste of time.
I have lower back issues too. I use a $40 dollar stool w/ wheels from the parts store.
Also, avoid leaning over any area if possible.
I would recommend up-grading your pc to a flex or rupes, and using your pc w/ a 3" backing plate for confined areas. A flex or a rupes has much less vibration than a pc that the difference is dramatic. Work can be performed faster w/ a flex or rupes. If you like this idea and you would like advice on packages that are available, pm me and I can help you.

[af90]

It sounds like you learned a lot in your first detail, congrats on jumping in.

8-12 hours for a two step is completely feasible, more depending on how in depth you go, correction desired, interior work completed, and how easy the paint is to work with.

I use 3M auto tape, it's a green thin tape and it's definitely worth it. The pro/con on a customer's vehicle is too great to skip out on it. What's the difference 15-30 minutes in taping or sliding the backing plate into another panel or staining the trim because you were too lazy to do it. In addition if you use any polish that dusts now you have to clean it out. Personal vehicle using a compound/polish I'm comfortable with and isn't dusting? Sure I'll just be cognizant of the edges and the orbit of the pad.

It seems like you've learned about catering options to your clientele, upwell what you can but if the customer doesn't want to pay a lot, it's more economical to use an AIO over a two-step just because it looks better. It's likely a majority of customers don't see a majority of the defects you do.

[Kurtopia]

How many white pads did you use while polishing?
I did a Pilot the other day and used four 5" white pads and another additional 3" for the small areas.
Your pad becomes saturated after a few sections so after cleaning on the fly a few times you might want to switch to a clean pad. That might be the reason you weren't seeing as good as results as you had earlier on in your polishing.

[David Hayward]

Yea I agree switching pads is not an issue. If you run into trouble on a spot nothing wrong with a pad swap.

As for the customer expectations, I always go over exactly what I am including. If they want to hear it or not I need them to agree with what I am offering them.

[Heisenberg]

Hello all,

7) My lower back was pretty darn stiff and was super sore the following day. I am hoping this was a technique issue, as I really enjoy detailing and don't want this to be a physical hinderance. I am a 27 yo male whos 165 and pretty athletic, Work all day on my feet and hardly ever sitting down. I used a little tri fold stool to perform work on the door panels and fenders. Anyone else have any lower back issues?

Everyone else seems to have touched on a lot of the other questions you raised, so I thought I'd mention this one. People often don't realize or neglect to truly pay attention to how physically demanding detailing can be. You twist and contort your body to clean and reach weird areas, and you put a lot of strain on joints and support systems while polishing and stuff. I'm 24 and if I neglect my normal routine I feel a little sore the next day. I recommend deep stretching and foam rolling before and after a long detail session like that. The lower back pain I always have alleviates itself 99% of the time if I stretch my hips. Quick pre-training hip opener - YouTube is an excellent tutorial for my favorite hip stretch. It undoes years of sitting at a desk or having bad posture.

Also, keep hydrated with water and give your wrists and hands a break every now and then. I know it's easy to get caught up and barrel through a detail but you gotta do it

Its hard not to think "I probably could have performed an All In One and he would be just as jazzed".

Stephan

Another great point. I personally think the general public can't really tell the difference between a two step vs. an AIO... the ones who can are paying top-dollar for their details. I get compliments on my daily driver all the time when I personally think it's filthy. When you start charging for this and not doing complimentary services, definitely consider what kind of car and what kind of customer you are dealing with before deciding to go all-in with a 2 step compound/polish. As David said above, it's critical to get on the same page with them so you don't have disappointment on either end. A lot of the time you can make them perfectly happy with an AIO on the exterior and focus on the interior. It makes for better results for you and your customer. Thank you for sharing your process and raising these great questions!

[allenk4]

Hello all,

I wanted to share my experience performing my first two step polish and wax process on a customers car, and have a few questions regarding my technique?

The car detailed was a 2007 Mercedes e550 in black, overall condition was pretty dirty on the wheels, tire spray on sides of doors, moderate swirling on the whole vehicle, a few deeper scratches here and there, water spots on the hood and door panels.

The reason I am not posting this in Show n Shine is because I have more questions than displaying my results. I definitely need to get better at picture taking

Steps and products used:

Tires: Amazing Roll Off
Wheels: Meguiars DUB wheel cleaner
Wash: Meguiars Gold Class via grout sponge
Dry: Cobra waffle weave
Tar removal: DP Auto Cleanse
Decontaminate: Nanoskin Speedy sponge with ONR
Exhaust tips: CG Metal Polish + Protection. used #00 steel wool to remove stubborn areas I would suggest #0000 instead
Tape off areas of concern
Polish: Meguiars 205 with White, then orange CCS pads, removed with yellow Cobra MF
Cleaned polish with Griots Paint Prep This step is unnecessary IMO. Only used when stripping sealants and wax, but will NOT be polishing the vehicle
Rinse Car with water, dry with waffle weave
Wax: Collinite 845, removed with yellow Cobra MF
Tire dressing: Optimum tire bond gel

My DA polisher is a Harbor Freight DA, I performed about 4-5 section passes on each section, using a speed of 4-5 for M205 and speed of 2 for collinite 845 You don't mention what size pads and backing plate you are using. If using the 6" that came with it, you should consider getting a 5" BP and using 5 1/2" pads. With a HF DA, they will cut better

This whole project took me 9.5 hours. I was exhausted and dog tired at the end, took me a heck of a lot longer than expected.

Questions:

1) Does it normaly take this long for a two step process?

Yes, that long or longer, depending on what % of the defects you are removing

2) I performed the service complimentary for picture taking and word of mouth start up reasons, there was a miscommunication - he thought I was also going to clean the inside and headlights. Said "usually a detail is in and out and everything else". When I inspected the exterior with him, he was kind of short, said "I trust you, don't really understand what you're explaining, but yea make her look good!". So he asked me to clean the inside of the windows while I as there. Has anyone had a client like this? Suggestions?

You have to be very clear up front about what your service will include. Do this when you walk around the car with the Owner, before you get started. Avoid using Detailing Jargon with Customers...speak to their level.

3) When I performed the test spot on the hood, the white LC beveled pad worked fantastic removing water spots and swirls with M205. Later throughout the detail, the swirls on the trunk and rear side panel behind the passenger door was not coming out as nice. I switched to a orange CCS pad with 205, and the results were much better. Has anyone switched pads half way through a detail? Should I have used the orange pad side by side the white pad on the hood test spot? If you all decide to change pads half way through the detail, do you go over what you previously did with the pad that didnt work as well?

Were you using the same White Pad for the entire car? Once they are saturated with polish, the cut will decrease dramatically. It can also overheat the BP, leading to Velcro/Pad failure. On an average sedan you should plan on using 4 cutting pads and 2 polishing pads. Were you cleaning your pad "on the fly" between sections? This can also decrease the amount of cut and increase marring.

4) The blue painters tape I used was the home depot brand HDX tape. It sucks ridiculously hard core sucks. It will lift up and not stick, and come off after a little bit. Does anyone have any suggestions on tape they use?

I agree. I prefer 3M 233+, it's the green stuff. Get the wide stuff too for the cowl

5) After polishing the vehicle, I used Griots paint prep to remove any oils left behind. The instructions said wipe immediately and do not let dry on paint. It was sunny and about 75F and I didn't have any shade so I tried to work a small section at a time. But I found out the hard way about "do not let dry" as it made streaks after I wiped with a yellow cobra MF. My technique for applying the paint prep was spraying it onto the paint, and then having a very difficult time having the towel remove all of the solution, as it caused streaking and the towel didnt absorb it so well. After going over the whole car, and rinsing with fresh water, and then drying with a cobra waffle weave towel, there were some very faint streaks on the hood and the trunk. Does anyone know how to remove those streaks? Any tips on how I should apply the paint prep for wax?

This step was unnecessary Surgically Clean paint is only a requirement prior to applying a coating like CQuartz UK. Not required before waxes or most sealants. No harm, just waste of time and energy

6) Do any home grown personal type business detailers who don't have a dedicated vehicle and operate as a side job carry around a personal garden hose in their car? I know some day I will probably have a customer with a crappy hose that will burst and affect the process. I do carry my own 100' extension cord and hose nozzle, but am wondering if I should carry a hose in a plastic bin.

You could. But, they make a mess in your trunk. If you do...after you wind it up, connect the ends so water doesn't go everywhere Easier to ask the Customer, "Will I have access to an electrical out let and YOUR garden hose?"

7) My lower back was pretty darn stiff and was super sore the following day. I am hoping this was a technique issue, as I really enjoy detailing and don't want this to be a physical hinderance. I am a 27 yo male whos 165 and pretty athletic, Work all day on my feet and hardly ever sitting down. I used a little tri fold stool to perform work on the door panels and fenders. Anyone else have any lower back issues?

Try to limit your work area to the width of your shoulders (24"x24"). Move your stool often...don't stretch to reach. I use the top of my towel bin as a workbench to hold my towel, pad cleaning brush, polish, etc. That way I am not constantly up and down. Scoot stool...scoot bin...start new section

I think those are all my questions, on to some observations:

After reading Mike's article about applying wax by machine instead of hand, I decided to try this technique for the first time. and WOWWOWOWOW!! OMG it's SO much faster to apply wax by machine. especially with 845!

He did tip me 100$ which was very satisfying to earn that 100$ after this service. According to the service price I've set for myself is about 50$/hr. Should have been about 450$.

Next time you see the owner of this car, you should ask him; "if we weren't Friends; what would you expect to pay for the detail I did?" "Do you know anyone who needs a detail?"

I noticed how helpful a 3" DA polisher might be. Onto trying to save for a rupes 75E.

Great little machines. They can slow you down if you get carried away with them. Polish everything you absolutely can with the larger pad set-up, before going to 3" to get what was too thin

The customer really liked the vehicle. I don't think he understands the process of what I did, even thought I tried to explain it. He was stoked, but not like, overly jazzed or anything.. Its hard not to think "I probably could have performed an All In One and he would be just as jazzed".

An explanation technique that Art Hernandez and I have been working on entails walking the car with the Customer before establishing the price.

Ask the Customer, "What about the condition of the car right now is not acceptable to you?" Write down notes of what they say, bothers them and then point out whatever they missed..."What about the wheels (wipe with finger)". "Are you planning on selling the vehicle?...potential buyers always want to look under the hood (upsell the engine detail)". Do the same for the interior, ask about stains and spots you notice. Pick at some tree sap or bug guts on the hood.

At the end of the walk-around, go thru your list

The paint is neglected and will need a wash and detailers clay to remove all the contaminants. That will take an hour and a half.

The stains you pointed out in the interior are moderate and I should be able to improve them significantly by shampooing the carpet. That will add an hour to the process

Total, total, I think I can get great results spending a full 9 hour day addressing the issues you identified with the car

You get the idea...build value based upon the things that they pointed out and the ones you coached them into noticing

Quote your price.

If they offer less, say something like, "Maybe we can prioritize the things that are MOST important to you and keep the price down a bit

I will try to post some before and after photos after work. Thank you all for reading my book and helping me sort out my beginning business and detailing endeavors.


Good Luck

Have FUN!

[af90]

Paint Prep could be used to remove polishing oils to check work to ensure correction was achieved and not being masked by fillers or oils.

[allenk4]

Paint Prep could be used to remove polishing oils to check work to ensure correction was achieved and not being masked by fillers or oils.

Yes, it could be, but that is taking the long, slow way around the block

CarPro Eraser or IPA are quicker, easier and probably less expensive too

[Judge]

I think you could have saved yourself some aggravation if you had used Griot's other product, the Pre-wax Cleanser. It's easy to confuse the 2, but their Paint Prep is for removing old wax or sealant. Whereas the Pre-wax Cleanser is for removing polishing oils, and is just spray on and wipe off.