Coating WITHOUT Correction??

[AutowerxDetailing]

I have a customer who ordered a brand new Jaguar. She picked it up fresh off the truck and told the dealership not to wash it. The drive home are the only miles on it, but it did get in the rain. She wants it coated, but doesn't feel that it needs any paint correction. It sounds like mainly a cost issue as she is generally pretty picky with her vehicles finish. I know as well as you guys do that 95% of even brand new cars could benefit from at least a light one stage paint correction. I have also never heard of applying a paint coating WITHOUT correcting the paint first. Has anyone ever done this? Is it OK to do? Does the correction process have anything to do with prepping the paint for the coating?

She is bringing the car tomorrow morning so anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

If the client is perfectly happy with the condition of the paint and if, upon visual inspection of the vehicle, you do not find any glaring defects, then I don't see why correction would be completely necessary. Polishing; however, is absolutely necessary if you are installing a long-term ceramic coating.

Here is why:
If you intend on properly prepping the vehicle for a coating you'd still want to chemically and/or mechanically decontaminate the finish... which would likely mar the finish a bit no matter how careful you are... which would then necessitate, at the very least, a light polishing step to restore the highest gloss possible before installing a coating.

[RPM_BR]

If the client is perfectly happy with the condition of the paint and if, upon visual inspection of the vehicle, you do not find any glaring defects, then I don't see why correction would be completely necessary. Polishing; however, is absolutely necessary if you are installing a long-term ceramic coating.

Here is why:
If you intend on properly prepping the vehicle for a coating you'd still want to chemically and/or mechanically decontaminate the finish... which would likely mar the finish a bit no matter how careful you are... which would then necessitate, at the very least, a light polishing step to restore the highest gloss possible before installing a coating.

I believe this is what tdekany meant, before things got out of control.
Excellent way of putting it, Sir, my best regards.

[ScottB]

Provide your thoughts and move forward ... way to many complaints for one post. This isn't politics nor religion guys !

My thoughts for what it's worth ....give the client the option. Allow them to understand the differences. In the end, just like most professionals, you move forward after the client makes an informed decision based upon all variables.

[Mike Phillips]

I have a customer who ordered a brand new Jaguar. She picked it up fresh off the truck and told the dealership not to wash it.

She sounds like she reads this forum or at least has read this article,


DON'T WASH CAR !!!!!!!!!!!

The drive home are the only miles on it, but it did get in the rain. She wants it coated, but doesn't feel that it needs any paint correction. It sounds like mainly a cost issue as she is generally pretty picky with her vehicles finish. I know as well as you guys do that 95% of even brand new cars could benefit from at least a light one stage paint correction. I have also never heard of applying a paint coating WITHOUT correcting the paint first.

In the above paragraph you thoroughly laid out the what the customer wants and what you know about professional detailing. Succinct and to the point.


Then you asked three questions...

1. Has anyone ever done this?

2. Is it OK to do?

3. Does the correction process have anything to do with prepping the paint for the coating?

Then this thread turned into segments with forum members answering you and segments discussing or arguing about all other topics some related, some not with one forum member talking to other forum members in what I would consider a demeaning manner as is his norm on discussion forums.

She is bringing the car tomorrow morning so anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Not sure where you're at with this project since posting this thread but let me take a stab at your questions...

1. Has anyone ever done this?

Yes.

2. Is it OK to do?

There's no law against it so it's up to your judgment based upon your individual knowledge and experience PLUS the feedback you receive from other sources of help like this forum.

3. Does the correction process have anything to do with prepping the paint for the coating?

Yes IF

A: If the paint needs correcting, key word being NEEDS.

B: If the customer wants the paint corrected or polished and is willing to pay for the time and process.


Here's the only example I could find of a car that I coated without using either a compound or a polish. I DID use a dedicated paint cleansing lotion to prep the paint for the coating that is manufactured by the same company that makes the coating meaning there is a Synergistic Chemical Compatibility between the prep product and the coating.

SEE STEP 4 and also read what I did to the paint on this brand new car in steps 1, 2 and 3.

Since I've noticed some people don't click on links and read the referenced material I've copied and pasted the how-to article below.




How to detail a 2014 Corvette Stingray


Actually, how to coat a new Corvette Stingray. Most people outside the forum world don't know what a paint coating is. They do understand what a car wax or synthetic paint sealant is but not a paint coating.

See my article here for the differences between car waxes, synthetic paint sealants and paint coatings.


3-Categories: Waxes, Paint Sealants and Coatings



Process

Step 1: Wash and dry car or wipe car clean
The owner washed his Corvette the night before and then next morning drove it to Autogeek. During the 3 hour trip to Stuart, Florida he hit a few showers and wet areas of the highway so after moving the Stingray into the garage we wiped it down using Detailer's Waterless Autowash.


Step 2: Inspect paint for swirls
For this we used the new Flex Swirl Finder Light. This Corvette is brand new and has been carefully hand washed by the owner using products purchased at Autogeek. There were no visible swirls or scratches in the finish.


Step 3: Inspect for above surface bonded contaminants
For this we first inspect using our clean, bare hand and felt no contamination. Next we used the Baggie Test and even with the baggie test we only felt nominal and sporadic contaminants. Not enough to justify claying or some other mechanical means of decontaminating.


Step 4: Chemically clean and polish paint to prep it for a coating
I used the Black Label Surface Cleansing Lotion on all the paint, hard smooth plastic and glass. Product was applied to the entire car at one time using a 5.5" Lake Country Black Flat Pad on the 5 speed setting of a Porter Cable 7424XP.


Step 5: Hand apply Black Label Diamond Paint Coating
For this step we wore black nitrile gloves and applied the coating using Lake Country Coating Applicators. We applied to all body panels at one time.


Step 6: Hand apply Black Label Diamond Glass Coating
For this I used round foam applicator pad.


Step 7: Hand applied Black Label Diamond Wheel Coating
For this we used the Gold Wax Finger Pockets.


Step 8: Removed coatings
After applying the last coating, (wheel coating), we carefully and methodically wiped the coatings off following our path of travel used to apply the coatings. That is start wiping off first where we applied first.



Here's a few pictures from this project...


Taping off Trim
There's some coarse or rough textured plastic trim pieces on the car as well as a few rubber gaskets that I would recommend covering with painter's tape to prevent staining them with any type of compound or polish.






Prep paint for coating
Here you can see the residue covering the car everywhere the Surface Cleansing Lotion was applied by machine. For a few of the tight ares like the fresh air intake louvers on the hood, around the tail lights in the back and the vent areas on the sides of the car.









Smoothing over a rock chip
The was a recent rock chip in the front clip. The edges were jagged and sharp. The owner asked if I could wetsand the chip out and I said "no" as the chip had penetrated past the clearcoat and the basecoat. He asked if I could sand the area to smooth over the jagged feel to the edges and I said "yes".

I then proceeded to lightly sand the area with a 3 inch 3M Trizact #5000 Sanding Disc and then removed the sanding marks using Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover, (Medium Cut Polish), and then re-polished to maximize gloss and clarity using the Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish, (Fine Cut Polish).

Polishing work to remove the sanding marks was done using the Griot's 3" Mini Polisher and some small, thin 3.5" foam polishing pads. I found the paint on this new Corvette to be very easy to polish.

I recommended to the owner to get some factory touch-up paint and dab a tiny amount into the now cleaned out and smoothed over rock chip.






After pictures...
























So to answer your questions,

1. Has anyone ever done this? YES

2. Is it OK to do? YES

3. Does the correction process have anything to do with prepping the paint for the coating? YES

Going by your description of what the customer wants, your evaluation of both the customer and the paint, then I would say if the paint is similar to the paint on this Corvette that I coated without doing either a dedicated compounding step or a dedicated compounding step followed by a dedicated polishing step then I'd say use your best judgment and if you think you can prep the paint using some form of chemical stripping process to match the application of the coating of your choice then go for it.

Make a profit, have fun and make your customer happy. Let her know you're looking for more work in case she has any friends she can refer to you.


Hope that helps...

[Mike Phillips]

Oh yeah...


The customer was happy and financially rewarded me well.

[Mike Phillips]

Now that I've answered the questions asked by the thread starter of this thread, now I'd like to address a few other posts...


Hang tight....

[Mike Phillips]

Any customer out there who is informed about how a coating is designed to hold up,more than likely won't skimp on prep work.

Nobody has ever asked me to skip all the prep before coating. However did a porche gt4 needed no prep just eraser and coat 400.00 for 5 hrs work.

Till this day car looks beautiful and marr free.

If you ever polished a car, you'd know the difference it makes.

Jeff, aka GSKR has polished a car. I'd guess he's polished THOUSANDS of cars and not only have I seen his work which I say is as good as any top notch detailers, but I've also worked side-by-side with Jeff and can attest to his skills and abilities. I could post picture after picture of Jeff working projects [just] here at Autogeek’s Show Car Garage but I don't have time nor feel the need to back up my first hand knowledge of Jeff's ability. One thing for sure, Jeff is never afraid of hard work and often times takes on the most difficult tasks of any detailing project.

Example


North Miami Beach Police Mobil Command Unit - Show Car Makeover


Here's Jeff using the Flex PE14 with some Blackfire Metal Polish on the front wheels...






It would have been easier to buff out the large flat panels but Jeff chose to help out with the dirtiest part of this project.







Below, Octopiston shares a quote from my article, The difference between a swirl and squirrel

Quote=Mike Phillips

I don't ever try to tell people how to run their business, but instead just try to offer some balance to the conversation because as a detailer, one of their goals is to make a profit and multiple step buff jobs take more time and if your customer doesn't know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel then just make their paint clean and shiny and move forward.

The difference between a swirl and squirrel

Thank you Octopiston for sharing the link to one of my all time favorite articles because it's funny and the reason it's funny is because it's true. All good comedy is based first in truth. Just to note, I include the pictures and the lesson taught in this article in ALL my formal detailing classes.

For those that have not read it, or have possibly forgotten the CONTEXT of the article, the point of the article is for MOST customers, that is for most people willing to spend the money and hire someone else to wash and detail their vehicle.

From the article,

Most people just want a clean interior, shiny black tires, clear glass and shiny paint, they don't know the difference between a swirl and squirrel.

For these people, the right option is a ONE STEP CLEANER WAX not a multiple step show car buff-out and that's how I end the article. That is recommending for most people, ONLY do one-step that does not remove all the swirls and scratches, it only make the paint (and the swirls and scratches) shiny.


Please click the link above and read the entire article, its short and the pictures are funny.

Mike's words: """make it clean and shiny""" - somehow somewhere there is a polishing step involved in that process, wouldn't you say?

You are kind of correct, there is no dedicated paint polishing step but instead there is a step that cleans, polishes and protects in ONE STEP and this is different than a dedicated polishing step because it includes the LSP factor.

If the client is perfectly happy with the condition of the paint and if, upon visual inspection of the vehicle, you do not find any glaring defects, then I don't see why correction would be completely necessary.

I agree and made this point in my previous comment.

Polishing; however, is absolutely necessary if you are installing a long-term ceramic coating.

Here is why:

If you intend on properly prepping the vehicle for a coating you'd still want to chemically and/or mechanically decontaminate the finish... which would likely mar the finish a bit no matter how careful you are... which would then necessitate, at the very least, a light polishing step to restore the highest gloss possible before installing a coating.

I 100% agree with the above. In FACT if a person were to search through all my posts on this forum you will find multiple times where on the topic of claying or any other means of mechanical decontamination I state,

"My own personal rule of thumb is that if I'm going to do any type of mechanical decontamination then I'm already planning on doing at least one type of polishing step"

And the reason for doing at least one form of polishing step is as exactly as you state, to remove and ensure there is no marring in the paint caused by the mechanical decontamination step.


Now let me bring back the thread starters original post...

I have a customer who ordered a brand new Jaguar. She wants it coated, but doesn't feel that it needs any paint correction.

I know as well as you guys do that 95% of even brand new cars could benefit from at least a light one stage paint correction. I have also never heard of applying a paint coating WITHOUT correcting the paint first.

98LowRanger knows what's best but like I demonstrated with the write-up and how-to article I shared with a brand new Corvette I personally inspected and detailed, if the paint on this Jaguar, according to 98LowRanger's inspection does not need to be clayed, then like me he can prep the paint without using a compound or polish and comply with the customer's wishes.

If after inspecting the paint he discovers that "yes" the paint does need to be mechanically decontaminated, then he can share this with the customer and see how she wants to proceed.

My strongest recommendation for 98LowRanger would be to wipe a section of paint clean with a spray detailer or a waterless wash and then WITH THE OWNER - Do the Baggie Test. This way you will both FEEL the paint and then both know whether or not the paint needs to be mechanically decontaminated.

Until this simple test is done, nobody knows whether the paint is contaminated and needs to be clayed before any other steps or if a decision needs to be made to clay the car and then also decide if at least one machine polishing step needs to be performed before coating the car.


For our TV show, we inspect every car we work on with baggie test. There’s no other way to know what's going on at the surface level until this test is performed.


The Baggie Test as seen on Competition Ready TV with AJ and Mike Phillips






It's important to balance what the customer wants with what is the best thing to do and the right thing to do. At the end of the day, like the saying goes,

The customer is always right

In some cases, when the customer is right but you know better you can either bite your toungue and move forward or be honest and let the customer know that the level of work they are asking for is something that doesn't meet your own standards of quality. At the end of the day, honesty is always the best policy even if it means you don't get a job.


Here's a quoste from the famous philospher John Cougar Mellencamp


"An honest man's pillow is his peace of mind"

[Mike lambert]

Excellent response Mike, I just make sure the client knows that if I can't make it so I'm happy to have my name on it, I won't coat it. This has worked very well for us, and if money is the issue I refer them to others that will offer them what they want. Thanks to you and Rod Kraft we have developed a reputation for providing high quality work and won't compromise our standards for the dollar.

[Paul A.]

And consistent with exactly why i call this place home, this thread has been self corrected to return to exactly why we are here...to learn! It's a comfort to hear not only the professional way to do some of this stuff but it's delivered in a professional manner as well void of character attacks. Whether or not i correct, polish or shine before a coating will always be a decision i make. I have learned what i should do in every situation. With that said, i will always respect another approach if it works for you without any criticisms.

[hdez]

OP, any update on this?

This thread went crazy and I think OP hasn't even viewed the responses haha.