The master of holograms

[tuscarora dave]

Obviously a DA (3401 speed 5), M205 & white PBW's VRG 6.5".

;-)

With practice you'll be able to do this with a rotary too.

[Kaban]

I almost never use a da for finishing work. If anything I use the DA sometimes for compounding.

Danube, I think you should really try finishing with a rotary next time, otherwise what's the point of having it if it's only going to create more work for you with all these holos

[tuscarora dave]

Danube, by the looks of that hologram photo, I'd say your arm speed is way too fast with the rotary. For practice sake, work on keeping your pad flat and slowing down your arm speed to a few (2-3) inches per second. Doing this in itself will drastically reduce the holograms inflicted by the rotary compounding/polishing process.

[Danube]

With practice you'll be able to do this with a rotary too.

From current point of view I can hardly believe that I'll be ever able to finish with rotary only. Are you able to finish without touching a DA (except for waxing purposes)? Wouldn't be surprised it answer is yes .. experience counts, however I've read a lot of posts where knowledgeable ones claim it's impossible.

I almost never use a da for finishing work. If anything I use the DA sometimes for compounding.
Danube, I think you should really try finishing with a rotary next time, otherwise what's the point of having it if it's only going to create more work for you with all these holos

As far as I remember you only started using rotary recently?! I'm not planing on having so much holos in the future (I know where I failed now), but DA is the must a present to finish with.

Danube, by the looks of that hologram photo, I'd say your arm speed is way too fast with the rotary. For practice sake, work on keeping your pad flat and slowing down your arm speed to a few (2-3) inches per second. Doing this in itself will drastically reduce the holograms inflicted by the rotary compounding/polishing process.

I think my worst problem in this job was not having the pad flat on the surface .. it was nearly night when I was doing this, when I pulled out the Brinkmann I started laughing loud, I couldn't believe my eyes, thus the thread subject. Luckily, holograms are very easy to remove ..

Now, I need to work on my arm speed and keep the pad flat.

The speed of the rotary was 1200rpm's. I believe this was ok.

[tuscarora dave]

From current point of view I can hardly believe that I'll be ever able to finish with rotary only. Are you able to finish without touching a DA (except for waxing purposes)? Wouldn't be surprised it answer is yes .. experience counts, however I've read a lot of posts where knowledgeable ones claim it's impossible.

It's not at all impossible to finish hologram free with a rotary. I do it quite often actually. At one point I set a goal to be able to finish hologram free with just a rotary. The old adage "Rome wasn't built in a day" applies here. It took many attempts and many times falling short of my goal to eventually get the hang of it. You really can't teach technique by typing on a computer keyboard. I had however, read as much as I could about the subject to figure out that a few things come into play when trying to finish hologram free with a rotary. A few of these things are...

Claying thoroughly. If your rotary pad is picking up any trace contaminates that the clay didn't pick up, you'll never finish hologram free with a rotary.

Working clean. If there is dust settling onto the car as you are polishing there will obviously be trouble. This includes dust from a previous compounding step.

Working with a clean finishing pad. If there is spent abrasives/paint embedded in the pad that you're trying to finish hologram free with, you're less likely to succeed. Clean the pad after every section worked, every time.

Knowing the pad, paint and product being used. You need to have an understanding of what's really going on between the pad and paint. How the abrasives react against the paint, how long the abrasives will work until they begin to dull down (diminish in cutting ability) or break down. Even non diminishing or SMAT abrasives eventually diminish to a point where they don't cut so effectively. I like to use the term "dull down" with non diminishing abrasives. These abrasives are very hard and very consistent in size, they do not break apart into smaller size abrasive particles as they are worked against the paint like a diminishing abrasive will. They do however get to a point where they just don't cut as effectively as they did when first applied to the pad. Once this occurs, there is a short window of time before the pad goes dry. It is in this window of time that the maximum gloss is being created. In other words, you need to know when to stop polishing.

The density of the pad's foam, or more importantly the lack of foam density plays a big role in finishing hologram free with a rotary as does the shape of the pad. If the pad won't contour to the shape of the panel you are working on, you're more likely to have holograms left behind. This is why I like the 5.5" Variable Contact pads for VRG polishers that Lake Country makes exclusively for Poorboy's World (not the 6.5" VC pads, IMO they are useless) The 5.5" PB VC pads for VRG polisher actually measures at about 6.5 inches in diameter (they are marketed as 5.5" for VRG polisher) and the red pad in particular is of a perfect density for contouring to curved panels. This pad is also thick as well as soft with a slight dished shape in the center. Used correctly (flat against the panel) I'd say at least 75% of the face of the pad will be working against the paint on a curved panel, as opposed to maybe 40 to 50% of the face of a flat LC pad or a Hydrotech pad. This makes a big difference when trying to finish hologram free with a rotary. The smaller the percentage of the face of the pad that's working against the paint, the more likely you are to have holograms in the end so the density, pad shape and the angle of the polisher (pad flat against the paint) is crucial when trying to finish hologram free with a rotary.

Speed in RPMs also plays a role when finishing hologram free with a rotary. When finishing with a rotary, I work the finishing polish until the abrasives begin to dull down, keeping the face of the pad as flat as possible against the paint the entire time. When the abrasives begin to dull down, I reduce the speed of the polisher to it's slowest speed in RPM and keeping the pad as flat as possible against the paint, I run 2 to 3 additional section passes at the minimum polisher speed being very careful to keep a good 50% overlap on my section passes.

After all this work, you'd better be sure to have microfiber that doesn't mar the paint as you wipe off the excess polish residue.

This may seem like a lot of factors to consider and maybe it is but, after practicing these for a length of time they become normal routine and don't even have to be thought about while finishing with a rotary. You just do it.

Just a little of insight as I see it/practice it concerning finishing hologram free with a rotary. Did I mention "very slow arm speed"?

[Mike Phillips]

It's not at all impossible to finish hologram free with a rotary.

I agree it's possible. But how do you know if you don't strip the finish and then inspect under really good lighting? Like full sun on a horizontal panel?

Also, if the color of the car isn't dark it can be hard to see if you're leaving holograms or not...


I believe it can be done and I even documented doing it here,

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer


But I don't believe it can be done on EVERY paint system and I don't think a person truly knows if they've finished down hologram free unless they chemically strip the paint and inspect it and I rarely if ever see where anyone documents how they prove it.

[Kaban]

As far as I remember you only started using rotary recently?! I'm not planing on having so much holos in the future (I know where I failed now), but DA is the must a present to finish with.

Correct, I've been using hte rotary for only about ten months or so. But trust me, if I can do it, you can do it also, I'm no magician.

Just use a finer polish and pad. Try a black LC pad with either 106fa or 85rd.... always comes out hologram free even on softest paint.

I spread the polish at 600, work it in around 1000 and start polishing between 1200-1500 and then slow it down again in the last few passes.Don't put too much pressure but enough to keep the pad planted on the paint.

[shoeless89]

Wow great work! lol

[PristinePro]

I've never come across a job that I couldn't get the halograms out of with a rotary. That being said I have had some jobs that where much more difficult to get them out of. The two worst being a black NSX and 72 Chevy Cheyenne. Super soft paints. Both paints I first went with a very light cutting pad and aggresive polish/ light compound. After I did my test spot it looked like I was using a heavy cut product with a wool pad. The first time you come across jobs like these your heart drops and some may even need to change their under shorts. Don't be alarmed though because thats why you start with less aggresive products first. Imagine if I would have started with a wool and a heavy cut product. Long story short. With my experience using the right pad, polish, clean supplies, finesse, and taking your time will get you halogram free results even on soft clears with a rotary. Easier said than done. If you have less experience with rotaries you might want to switch to your da if you ever encounter a similiar problem and remember... Patients, Patients, Patients!

Anyone else here come across some soft clears? What make and model of car? So far I've had NSX, BMW's, 911 Turbo's and some after market paint jobs that have had some soft clears and I'm sure there are some I'm forgetting.

[Danube]

It's not at all impossible to finish hologram free with a rotary. I do it quite often actually .....

Thank you for such detailed reply tuscarora dave, with your instructions I can clearly see where are you coming from and what my mistakes are (which was by the way the purpose of me posting this thread). I've seen some different reactions to my holo thread, but hey .. I'm sure many of you made even worse mistakes, but none was gutsy enough to make it public. Learning curve .. we all have it thus the hunger for improvement.

Yesterday I was doing compounding on another car and wanted to give it a go with a water bottle, spraying a bit of water on the panel (not pad). Nice tip, acquired for all future work.