Getting my Griot's DA Polisher today and need some direction?

[jhallhall]

Getting my Griot's DA Polisher today and need some direction?


So i am patiently awaiting the arrival of my Autogeek order which has my new griots polisher in it!! along with some pads, 2 orange, 2 white, and 2 black. The compounds and polishes i decided to go with are Ultimate compound, SwirlX, and Ultimate Polish. That being said.....

I want to do a test spot on the trunk lid of my car. overall the car has some swirls and RIDS... but i need some direction. Here are some pics (sorry they aren't the greatest)








Anyways, I was wondering what i should start out with on my test spot. I was thinking trying swirlX first on the white pad. Any guidance is greatly appreciated and thank you

[Perfections]

Ultimate polish is the consumer version of Meg's 205 I'd try that and the white pad and move up from there

[jhallhall]

^^ thanks I will try that first

[Mike Phillips]

I want to do a test spot on the trunk lid of my car. overall the car has some swirls and RIDS... but i need some direction. Here are some pics (sorry they aren't the greatest)

Anyways, I was wondering what i should start out with on my test spot. I was thinking trying SwirlX first on the white pad. Any guidance is greatly appreciated and thank you

Hi chefffery,

A good rule of thumb is to use the least aggressive product to get the job done, so like Jon aka Perfections stated, maybe try the SwirlX with a white polishing pad first.

If you are not seeing results fast enough then try the UC with either a polishing pad or a foam cutting pad.

Keep in mind,

5-6 Speed setting for removing swirls
4-5 Speed setting for polishing after swirls are removed
3-4 Speed setting for machine applying a wax.

For your test spot I always recommend using a Tape-Line when doing your testing as it will make it very easy for your eyes to detect changes, which usually mean improvements in the test area and gauge how effectively your pads, products, tool and techniques are working on this particular paint system.






Also, mark the back of your backing plate with a black felt marker like you see below as this will help you to see when the pad is rotating or just vibrating. When you're trying to remove swirls you need the pad rotating.





When doing your TEST SPOT, you want to do what's called a Section Pass.

Here's how to do a "Section Pass" when trying to remove swirls, scratches and other below surface paint defects.

How to do a Section Pass

Evaluating your Test Spot
After you do your section pass, wipe off the residue and then inspect the results. If you want to make sure 100% you're removing all the swirls and scratches then chemically strip the paint before inspection.

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results



You can inspect after just the compound or after the compounding and the polishing, since the process of correction is both steps I would inspect after both steps as the compounding can leave some micro-marring that will be removed in the polishing step.

Once you dial in your process then duplicate it over the rest of the car working section by section. If you have problems, come back to this thread and tell us what you're seeing and we'll do our best to see you through to success.


Working section by section
Buffing out a car with a DA Polisher or ANY machine is a matter of doing sections at a time, so slice each panel up into smaller sections and after finishing one section move onto a new section and OVERLAP a little into the previous section. Here's an example of slicing a panel, (a car hood), up into smaller sections.






Here's some tips...

First, always work on a cool surface in the shade.

Second, prime clean, dry pads before starting.

Priming a clean, dry pad is considered the best approach for using a DA Polisher because it ensures that 100% of the working surface of the pad is wet with product and working at maximum efficiency when you turn the polisher on. I originally learned of this technique from my friend Kevin Brown.

Priming the pad also ensures that you don't have any dry portion of the pad working over the paint un-lubricated. This really isn't a risk because since you're just starting out you're going to be removing defects a lot more serious than would be caused by any portion of the pad that is dry and spinning against the paint.

Plus, after just a few passes, the product you apply to specific areas of the face of the pad will migrate over the entire face of the pad and it will do this rather quickly when you're on the higher speed settings.



Priming the Pad - For clean, dry pads
Start with a clean, dry pad and add some fresh product to be spread out to the face of the pad. Using your finger, spread the product out over the pad and then using your finger work it into the pores of the pad. Don't saturate the pad, just use enough product to make sure that 100% of the working face of the pad has product coverage.






Work the product around the face of the pad and into the pores





Any extra, take and apply to the outer edge until 100% of the working face of the pad is primed with product.




As an option you can also prime the outer edge. This helps if you're buffing around convex curves or around panels that the edge of your buffing pad may come into contact with, like spoilers, side mirror housings, curved panels etc.






Primed and ready to add "Working Product" to.







Adding "Working Product" to the primed pad
Some people will recommend 3 to 4 pea size drops of product as the proper amount of product to use and this can be correct for concentrated products or working small sections and if you follow this advice make sure you are not under-lubricating the surface being worked.

Pea size drops of product






For some products and paint conditions, you may want more product on the surface working for you. Here's an example of dime size drops of product.

Dime size drops of product






How much product to use after priming

Ample
You want an AMPLE amount of product when first starting out because you pad is dry and some of the product is going to seep into the pad leaving less on the surface to LUBRICATE and ABRADE the paint

Cut down on the amount of product AFTER pad is broken-in...
After your pad is broken in with product, clean your pad after each section pass and when you apply fresh product you can cut down on the amount of product you actually apply to the face of your pad.


Too Little Product
Under-using product reduces lubricity and will make it more difficult for your pad to rotate efficiently.

Too Much Product
Using too much product will hyper-lubricate or over-lubricate the pad and will interfere with the abrasives ability to abrade the paint.


Keep in mind that you want enough product on the surface so you have,

• Abrasives working for you.

• A lubricating film between the paint and the pad.

Often times if you don't have enough product to work with you'll end up buffing to a dry buff. When you lose lubrication, friction increase and this can lead to micro-marring or hazing.

More to come...

[Mike Phillips]

Continued...


How to use a DA Polisher to remove swirls and scratches and create a show car finish!
Note; these techniques apply to your doing your Test Spot as well as all the sections you're going to break the panels of your car up into as you work around it.

Correction work – Using the PC7424XP to remove below surface defects

• Work small sections at a time
• Make overlapping passes as you work the panel
• Use a slow arm speed
• Use the 5.0 to 6.0 Speed setting when removing below surface defects
• Apply firm downward pressure
• Don't over use or under use your choice of compound or polish
• Hold the pad flat to the surface
• Clean your pad often
• Remove spent residue before adding fresh product

Work small sections at a time
Dual action polishers that use a free floating spindle assembly, like this PC 7424XP are popular because they're safe. The reason they’re safe is because if you push down too hard on the head of the polisher the buffing pad will stop rotating. This will prevent you from burning through the paint and/or instilling swirls into the paint. Compared to a direct drive tool like a Rotary Buffer, this tool is dramatically safer in its manner of operation.

For this same reason that people love this style of polisher, (It’s safe and easy to use), you'll find out right away that it also limits you to only working small sections at a time in order to remove enough paint to level out the surface and remove the defects. In most cases you're only going to tackle a section about 16" to 18" inches square or so; usually a 2' section is too large and a 1' foot section is too small, so you'll want to find a balance between working too small an area and working too large of an area at one time.

Since you can only work small sections at a time, this means you’ll need to break each panel up into small sections kind of like Checkerboard or Patchwork Quilt.


That is you’ll take each panel of the car, (a panel would be a door or fender or the hood), and in your mind’s eye slice it up into dedicated sections approximately 16" to 18” squarish or so. Because not all panels are perfect squares you’ll need to let the panel be your guide and break-up each panel into these smaller sections no matter what the shape may be. What’s important is to only work a small section at a time while using overlapping passes to work your product.



The average size hood will be broken up into either 4 sections for a small hood, (Mini Cooper), or 6 sections, (Honda Pilot), or 9 sections, (Ford F150).


This isn't a hard and fast rule as softer or more workable a paint means you can tackle a larger section at a time and conversely, with harder paints, or less workable paints you'll want to shrink the size of your work area down.

The idea being to match the size of the section you're working to the workability of the paint, which you should discover when you do your Test Spot, which is addressed in this article. Experience helps a lot with judging work size area but the only way to get experience is to put some hours behind the polisher on multiple cars.


Spread your product out first
To start, place the face of the buffing pad with the product on it, flat against the paint. Then turn the polisher on and quickly spread the product out over the entire section you're going to work. You can do this rather quickly because at this point you're not trying to remove defects; you’re just trying to spread the product out over the paint so that you have a uniform film of product spread out over the section.


Overlap your passes by 50%
After you spread the product out, now it's time to slow your Arm Speed down and begin making overlapping passes usually in a crosshatch or back and forth, side-to-side pattern.

The goal is UMR, that is Uniform Material Removal.

The reason for this is so that you remove an equal amount of paint over each section and in turn over the entire car. In order to do this you need a method that you can control and duplicate and for most people following a back and forth, side-to-side pattern works because it’s easy to remember, easy to do and easy to duplicate.


The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.

In most cases if you're removing any substantial below surface defects you're going to make 6-8 section passes to the section you’re working before you either feel comfortable you've removed the defects or you're at the end of the buffing cycle for the product you're using.


Buffing Cycle
The buffing cycle is the amount of time you are able to work the product before the abrasives have broken down, (if you’re using a product that uses diminishing abrasives), and/or the product begins to dry and you lose the lubricating features of the product. Different products have different buffing cycles depending upon the type of abrasives used in the formula and the different ingredients used to suspend the abrasives and provide lubrication.

Factors that affect the buffing cycle include,

• Ambient temperature
• Surface temperature
• Size of work area
• Type of machine
• Type of pad material
• Humidity
• Wind or air flow surrounding the car
• Amount of product used
• Technique

Wet buffing technique
Most compounds and polishes should be used so that there is enough product on the surface to maintain a wet film while the product is being worked. The wetness of the product is lubricating the paint as the abrasives abrade the paint and cushion or buffer the abrading action so the abrasives don’t simply scour the finish leaving behind swirls and scratches.


Dry Buffing Technique - Buffing to a dry buff
There are some products on the market where the manufacture recommends buffing the product until it dries. As the product dries you’ll tend to see some dusting as the product residue becomes a powder and the paint will have a hard, dry shine to it.

Although some manufactures recommend this, it’s important to understand what’s taking place at the surface level as you buff to a dry buff. As the product dries, in essence you are losing the lubricating features of the product and as this happens friction and heat will increase. As friction and heat increases, so does the risk of micro-marring the paint or instilling swirls either by the product residue or the pad material and/or a combination of both.

While we trust that the manufacture knows their products best, when we take a close look at what it means to buff on a delicate surface like an automotive clear coat, it doesn’t make sense to run a buffing pad on top of the paint without some kind of wet film to lubricate the paint at the same time. We always recommend that you follow the manufacturer's recommendations and use your own judgment.

Everyone new to buffing wants to be told some easily identifiable sign that they can use to tell when it's time to stop buffing and it's not that simple, so here's an indicator I've always used and taught to others,

Wet film behind your path-of-travel
As you're making a single pass with the polisher, the paint behind the path of travel of the buffer should have a visible wet film on it. If the paint behind the pad is dry and shiny, you've run out of lubrication and you're dry buffing. Turn the polisher off. Wipe the residue off and inspect using a Swirl Finder Light to make sure you didn't dull or mar the paint, you usually won't cause any harm, but pay attention when your running the polisher and don't buff to a dry buff. If you do, you can quickly re-polish that section by cleaning your pad and adding a little fresh product and making a few new section passes.


Use a slow arm speed
The speed at which you move the polisher over the paint is called your arm speed, that is how fast or slow you move your arm which is controlling the polisher. When removing below surface defects like swirls and scratches you need to move the polisher slowly over the surface, not quickly. This has to do with the hardness or workability of the paint and when it comes to modern clear coats, generally speaking,

Modern clear coats will tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints.

This isn’t 100% true all the time as I’ve worked on some very soft clear coat paints, but more often than not this is the norm. Another way of saying this would be,

The paint on a brand new Mustang will be harder than the original paint that came on a 1965 Mustang.

This has to do with how modern paints are chemically made, sprayed, baked, and cured onto the car’s panels. Modern paints tend to last a long time as compared to paints from the 1950’s, 1960’s and 1970's and part of the reason they are more durable is because they are physically harder than old style solvent-evaporation paints, thus they resist deterioration better than old style paints. And while everyone wants a paint job that will last a long time, it is this hardness factor that makes it more difficult for you and me to remove defects like swirls and scratches out of the paint because it’s physically harder to remove small particles of paint off the surface both by hand or machine. This is one of the main reasons so many people get so frustrated trying to remove swirls out of the clearcoat paint on their new cars, trucks and s.u.v.s.

It’s for this reason you need to move the polisher slowly over the surface, you need to give the buffing pad, the oscillating/rotating action of the polisher and the abrasives in the product under downward pressure time to affect the paint in one area before moving it forward to new territory. If you move the buffer too quickly over the paint you won’t remove any defects because you won’t remove any paint.

A personal note, maybe you can relate...
Even though I've been machine buffing cars since the early 1980's, and teaching people how to use machines since 1988, and a part of this is teaching people to move the polisher slowly when removing defects, each time I start a new project I'll find myself instinctively starting out by moving the polisher too fast.

My theory on why I do this and why so many other people do this is for two reasons.

1. When you turn the polisher on at the 5.0 and 6.0 speed setting, it sounds like the motor is spinning really fast, (it is), and this sound has a psychological effect that makes us want to move the polisher fast. I find I have to purposefully slow down how fast I'm moving the polisher over the surface.

2. Buffing out a car from start to finish takes a long time and the biggest chunk of time is the cleaning and polishing step where the defects are being removed. It's easy to think that if you move the polisher faster then you can do the job faster, but this just isn't true. Fact is if you move the polisher fast over the surface you're really not doing anything but wasting time. It's another case of moving slower in order to go faster. (That's what you want to do)


Speed settings for removing below surface defects
The variable speed dial on the PC 7424XP offers 6 speed settings from 1 to 6. For most car detailing projects you’ll use these speeds.

• 5.0 to 6.0 to remove defects
• 3.0 to 4.0 to apply and spread a layer of wax or a paint sealant
• 5.0 to 6.0 to remove dried wax or paint sealant using a microfiber bonnet

5.0 to 6.0 to remove defects
Removing below surface defects means removing a little paint. In order to remove a little paint you need the pad rotating against the paint under pressure with an abrasive product. In order to do this you need to use the 5.0 to 6.0 speed setting. This applies to any steps where you’re removing paint. This would include a heavy compounding step, a final polishing step, or working a cleaner/wax over a neglected finish.


Apply firm downward pressure
For removing below surface defects you need to apply firm downward pressure to the head of the polisher. As we discussed earlier, removing below surface defects means removing some paint off the surface and this requires applying some pressure to the head of the polisher to engage the abrasive particles with the paint so they can take little bites out of it.



15 to 20 pounds of pressure
If you place the face of the polisher on a normal household bathroom scale, it will read around 4-5 pounds, so just the weight of the polisher itself is supplying some downward pressure.

Now follow me, if you apply just LIGHT pressure to the head of the polisher to keep the pad flat and stable while it’s operating, you’ll be around 7-8 pounds of downward pressure right from the get-go. If you apply even more pressure to really engage the pad and the abrasives against the paint you can easily reach 15 to 20 pounds of downward pressure.

I know when some people read this it sounds excessive but it’s really not when you consider the pressure by just the weight of the machine already is around 7 pounds of pressure, and with just light pressure you’re already at 10 pounds of pressure.

Take my word for it, when trying to remove a little paint from some cars it’s going to take some downward pressure to engage the abrasives into the paint and do any serious correction work. The key is to remember that polishing paint is an art form and anytime you have to use an aggressive approach to remove a little paint chances are good you’re going to have to do a follow-up step to refine the finish even further using a less aggressive pad and product. So the results from an aggressive product with downward pressures of 15 to 20 pounds won’t always leave a pristine finish but that’s okay, you’re not finished yet. (No pun intended)

As a general rule of thumb, when working on seriously neglected paint, you'll want to apply firm pressure but never so much that the pad stops rotating. This is the purpose of the black lines on the back of your backing plate and/or foam buffing pads, it’s so you can easily see if your pad is rotating or simply vibrating against the paint. Paint is removed best when the pad is rotating, not simply vibrating.

Keep in mind you need to balance how much pressure you apply to the condition of the paint and what you’re trying to accomplish. If the paint is in good condition and only in need of light correction, (shallow defects), then you won’t need to apply as much pressure. If the paint you're working on looks like it's seen a Destruction Derby, then increase your pressure to anywhere from 15 to 20 pounds of pressure.


Hold the pad flat to the surface
It's vital that you hold the buffer in such a way as to keep the pad flat against the surface while you're buffing. With a completely flat panel like the hood of most large cars and trucks, for example a 80's era Suburban, it's pretty easy to keep the pad rotating by holding the buffer evenly as you buff.

With panels that slope or curve, you need to rotate or adjust how you hold the body of the polisher to match the curve of the panel as you move it over the paint.


If you hold the polisher in a way that there is more pressure on only an edge of the buffing pad, this increased pressure to one section of the face of the buffing pad is enough to stop the pad from rotating. This will be easy to see from the marks on your backing plate and paying attention to how you’re holding the polisher in relationship to the shape of the panel. Watching your pad will help you to perfect your technique.

It's not as difficult as it sounds and most people new to using a DA Polisher will learn how to hold the polisher while adjusting for the curves and slopes of the car after buffing out just the front clip of their car, (hood and front fenders). The learning curve for a DA Polisher is pretty flat, that means it's pretty easy to learn how to use.



Use an ample amount of product
When we say use an ample amount of product this means don’t use too much product and don’t use to little product.


Too much product

If you use too much you can hyper-lubricate the surface and this will make it more difficult for the abrasives to abrade the surface as they’ll tend to want to glide or slip over the surface instead of bite into the surface.


To little product
If you use too little product there won’t be enough lubrication to enable the buffing pad to rotate and thus engage the abrasives against the surface so they can bite into and remove small particles of paint.

Learning how much product to use varies with manufactures products as there’s a lot of variables involved. The best teacher is experience coupled with any hands-on training you can find. Watching a video or asking questions on a detailing discussion forum like the Autogeek Online Detailing Forum is a great resource for this kind of information.

Also, when you’re first starting out with a dry pad, (doesn’t matter so much if it’s new or used as long as it’s clean), the pad will tend to absorb some of the initial product applied to it or picked up off the surface. As you continue to buff and the pad becomes more wet or saturated with product a couple of things will take place:

You’ll find you’ll need less product to work a section. As the pad becomes wet with product, the combination of liquid and foam will tend to absorb and dissipate the power provided by the motor. This will show up as a reduction in the ability of the tool to keep the pad rotating under pressure. Then if you apply more pressure the free floating spindle assembly will do it's job and the pad will stop rotating. The fix for this is to clean your pad often, which we will address below and/or switch to a fresh, clean, dry pad and continue switching to clean dry pads as you work around the car and your products become wet with product.

Of course the ability to swap out pads means having a collection of pads in your arsenal to start with depending upon your budget and how much you value your time. Simply put, dry pads rotate against the paint better than wet pads, so it’s faster to buff out an entire car by swapping out wet pads for dry pads versus trying to buff the entire car out with only a few pads.

New generation DA Polishers like the PC 7424XP and the Meguiar’s G110 offer more power than their predecessors and this is their strong point because it’s this extra power that will keep your pads rotating better even after they become wet with product. This one feature alone makes them worth choosing over earlier dual action polishers and/or upgrading.



Clean your pad often
Anytime you’re buffing with an abrasive product, whether an aggressive compound or a light polish, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,

• Spent or used-up product
• Removed paint

You need to remove these residues often by cleaning your pad either with a,

• Pad washer
• Pad cleaning brush
• Terry cloth towel using a technique called cleaning your pad on the fly.

Again, we cannot stress enough the importance of working clean and in this case it means wiping any spent product off the paint after each section pass and removing any spent product and paint residue off the face of your buffing pad with one of the three methods listed above.

If you don’t clean your pad often then usually you’ll find that your product will become gummy on the surface of the paint and wipe-off will become more difficult. Not only that, but as product residue builds-up on your paint you increase the risk of instilling swirls back into the paint.

Adding fresh product to used-up product dilutes and pollutes the fresh product, making it less effective. So make it a best practice to clean your pad often and always wipe off spent product before adding fresh product.


How often to clean your pads?

Car body panels
At a minimum, wipe all spent product and paint residue off the car after you finish each section and always wipe the paint clean before re-polishing that section a second or third time with fresh product.

Buffing pads
This is personal preference and here’s what I do, for the average condition paint I will tend to clean my pad on the fly every other application of product. This means if I were buffing out the hood of a car I would apply my product to the face of the pad and buff out a section of paint about 20” square or so. If I’m done with that section I would wipe the residue off and then buff out the next section and be sure to overlap a little into the previous section. Now, after I’ve buffed these two sections I would clean my pad on the fly and then start on a new section and repeat this method as I work around the car.

If the paint is severely neglected and I have to really get aggressive with the paint then I would clean my pad after each application. Also, if the temperatures are hot then I would clean my pad after each application as this will make buffing easier and more effective with less problems associated to the product trying to dry and/or become gummy on the surface.

If you have a pad washer then you can follow this same routine. The most effective way to clean a pad while working on a car is by placing the pad on a rotary buffer, (even if you’re not using a rotary buffer to do the buffing work), and use the direct drive rotating action the rotary buffer offers to spin the pad in the pad washer at high speed and under pulsating pressure to really get the pad clean. Then lift the pad up a few inches and bring the rpm’s up to the buffer’s highest speed and spin out all the water via inertia. Now your pad will be clean and ready to get back to work.

[Mike Phillips]

How to clean your foam pad on the fly



When using a dual action polisher to remove below surface defects with any type of abrasive product you’re going to have two things building up on the face of the foam pad that you need to clean off.

• Spent residue - From the product you’re using.
• Paint - Small particles of paint that are coming off the car as you abrade the surface

If you’re working on a clear coat finish then keep in mind you won’t see the paint residue building up on the pad because the clear coat paint is clear.

Make sense?


If you’re working on a clearcoat finish, all you're going to see is the color of the product that you’re using. For example if you’re using a white colored polish you’ll see white residue building-up on the pad.

Now if you’re working on as single stage paint then you’ll see the color of the paint on the car on the face of your foam pad,. For example if you’re working on a single stage yellow paint system then you’ll see yellow paint on the face of your foam pad.

The important thing to understand is that as you work on the car with your polisher you’re going to be removing a little paint and there’s going to be used-up product and paint building-up on the face of the foam pad. It's important to clean this gunk off your pad often.

So the question is, how to you clean this gunk off the pad?


The answer is there’s a number of ways to clean your foam pad, the three most common are,

• Pad Washer
• Nylon Brush or Pad Cleaning Brush
• Terry Cloth Towel

Out of the 3 options listed above, cleaning your pad on the fly is probably the most popular because it’s fast, and most people have a terry cloth towel in the linen closet that they can use to clean the pad.

The best way to clean a pad is with a pad washer but before you can use a pad washer you must first own one. Pad washers are worth their weight in gold if you buff cars out with any kind of regularity. If however you’re just buffing out your own personal cars, then chances are you don’t own a pad washer but chances are very good you do own a terry cloth towel or two that you can use to clean your pads on the fly.

Brushes work good if you’re using a rotary buffer but the only way you can use one with DA Polisher is to turn the polisher off, hold the polisher and pad in such a way that the pad won’t spin and then rub the brush over the face of the pad to scrape off the residue.

While this works, it means turning the polisher off, (now you're not buffing out the car, remember the time issue?) and grabbing your brush and then brushing the pad. Nothing wrong with this but when you consider how long it already takes to do the cleaning step, (about 4-6 hours for an average size car and that’s if your good at this and if you work fast and don’t take any breaks. So stopping the polisher and using a brush to clean the pad works but it’s not as fast or effective as using a terry cloth towel.

The whole idea and success behind the cleaning your pad on the fly technique is in that it allows you to clean your pad quickly, (that’s the on the fly part), and then quickly get back to work.

Again, buffing out an entire car using a dual action polisher from start to finish is an all day job. There is no time for lollygagging. If you lollygag or take long breaks, you either won’t get the job done in one day or you’ll sacrifice doing a quality job during the cleaning step in order to get to the waxing step so you can put the car back into service.



So let’s take a look at how-to clean your pad on the fly

Cleaning your pad on the fly is where you take a terry cloth towel, usually a medium size hand towel works best, you fold it in two and then simply hold the towel against the face of the pad and then turn the polisher on and use your hand that’s holding the towel to push the towel into the foam. This will act to draw any excess liquid out of the foam and any excess residue off of the face of the pad.


This is me using the Clean your Pad on the Fly Technique to clean my pad on the fly as we removed the oxidation off this Neon.

[Mike Phillips]

Continued...

Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to apply a wax or paint sealant.

Applying a wax or paint sealant is much different than removing below surface defects because when you're applying a wax or paint sealant you're not trying to remove paint but instead just trying to spread a layer of wax or sealant over the paint and to whatever degree possible, work the product into the paint.

At this point of the project all the residues from the previously applied products should be removed and the surface should be dust free.

For applying a finishing wax or paint sealant you'll want to use a soft foam finishing pad and set the speed setting on the polisher to the 3.0 to 4.0 speed setting. Liquids work best for machine application but paste waxes can also be used by simply applying the paste wax onto the face of the pad then spreading it around just like you would a liquid.

Set the speed setting to 3.0 to 4.0 for applying waxes and paint sealants


Use a soft foam finishing pad like the Lake Country Charcoal Gray Finishing Pads to apply waxes and paint sealants.





No limit to how big a size to work
When you apply a wax or paint sealant by machine you are not limited to only applying to a small section and in fact you can apply the product to as large of a section you like; the important thing is to make 2-3 passes over each square inch.

The reason you work small section at a time when removing swirls goes back to the hardness of the piant.

When you're applying a wax or sealant you're not trying to remove or abrade small particles of paint, you're simply trying to spread out an uniform layer of product.

Make sense?




Methods of applying a wax or paint sealant by machine
There are a couple of ways to actually apply the wax to the paint. One method is to place the product directly onto the face of the pad, then place the face of the pad onto the surface of the paint and then turn the polisher on and start spreading the wax. Most people that do this place an ample amount of wax on the face of the pad to cover a large section since you are not limited to how large of an area you can work at one time. While this works, it also tend to load your pad up with product.


Question: Think about it. When you place the face of the foam pad onto the surface of the paint and for a brief moment the polisher is still turned off... at this point, where is the liquid going?

Answer: Because the foam is soft and absorbent the wax goes into the pad and after some time the pad can become wet with product that may end up just being wasted.

A variation of this is to only place small pea-sized drops of wax onto the pad and then spreading these pea-sized drop of wax over the paint. Most people aren't disciplined enough to use this method and it means adding product often to the pad.

A variation of applying a pea-sized drop of product to the face of the pad is to place pea-sized drops of product onto the paint and then as you're running out of wax under your pad come up to the pea-sized drop and tilt the polisher just for a brief moment in order to capture the drop of wax or paint sealant under the pad and then quickly lay the pad flat and continue spreading the wax around.


Kissing the Finish
Kissing the finish is kind of the lazy man's method of applying wax to a car by machine, (it's the method I like to use and the term I came up with to try to explain what to do). To do this you place a strip or bead of product onto the face of your foam finishing pad and then instead of laying the pad against the paint where pressure will force most of the wax into the inside of the pad, you just dab the pad down onto the surface at an angle and deposit a little bit of the wax onto that section of the paint. In other words you use the pad to lightly kiss the finish. Continue this until you've deposited most/all of the wax that was on the face of the pad to the car panels.

Now with the pad flat against the paint, turn the polisher on and begin spreading the wax still on the pad over the car's panels. When you come up to a small dab of wax on the paint, simply tilt the polisher a little and snag the wax and pull it under the pad. Then lay the pad flat and continue spreading the wax over the paint and working your way around the car. Not a perfect system but the fast, lazy man's method.


Kissing the Finish by Mike Phillips


Kissing the Finish is a technique you can use to apply a liquid wax and help keep the wax spreading out over the paint instead of loading up inside your pad.


I use the "Kissing the Finish" technique when machine applying a liquid wax or paint sealant, that is instead of taking the wax you see on the face of the pad and simply squishing it up into the foam by placing the foam pad flat against the paint, I'll first "kiss the finish" or in other words, touch the face of the foam pad with wax on it down onto your panel at an angle thus depositing only a portion of the wax on the pad to one area on the paint.

The effect is to have a bunch of dabs of wax on the paint deposited off the face of the pad. You're car's panel will look like it has spots, or arcs of product on it...


It's really the lazy man's way to machine wax a car because there are similar methods that will do the same thing. This technique works well for two reasons,

1) If you're already use a DA Polisher then you're already use to applying product to the face of the pad.

2) If you're working on vertical panels it can be a challenge to sling a small amount of product onto the vertical panel directly out of the bottle so applying to the face of the pad is faster, easier and uses less product. For horizontal panels you could simply squirt a little wax randomly over the surface and then pick up the product under the face of your buffing pad on the fly, but if you're a creature of habit you might find yourself just applying to the face of the pad via reason 1 above.



First, shake shake shake... always shake liquid car care products up thoroughly before applying.

Next, apply a small circle of product onto the face of the pad... you can also use an x-pattern or even make a smiley face... whatever makes you happy...




Next, touch down just an edge of the face of the foam pad and deposit a little of the wax to a portion of the panel you're working on.

Then after you've Kissed the Finish in a few places, take what's left and place the face of the foam pad against the paint and THEN turn the polisher on and begin making overlapping passes over the paint.

UNLIKE removing swirls with a DA Polisher where you only want to work a small section at a time, (about 20" squarish or so), if you've removed all the below surface defects and now you're just applying a wax or paint sealant, you can work a section as far as you can reach as long as you have ample product to spread out.

For the hood of this El Camino I can easily reach and work on half of the hood at one time, so I use enough wax to coat over half of the hood and move the pad over each square inch at least 2-3 passes to sufficiently work the sealant over and into, (to whatever level possible), the paint.




As I come up to a dab of wax from where I "Kissed the Finish" with my pad, I tilt the polisher, lifting the leading edge of the pad but maintaining constant contact with the trailing edge of the pad and then run the pad over the dab of wax and then immediately lay the pad flat again and then work new territory with this new dab of wax.







Tilt the polisher a little to lift the leading edge of the pad...



Then move the tilted leading edge over the wax to draw and trap the wax between the paint and the pad...






Then lay the pad flat and begin working the wax or in this case a synthetic paint sealant over the paint.



Continue doing this as you work around the car and all panels are coated with an application of wax or paint sealant.


This is called, Kissing the Finish...

Note: This technique works well with basecoat/clearcoat finishes because clear coat paints don't absorb liquids very well. Be careful if you use this technique on a single stage paint, especially a metallic single stage finish as portions of ANY liquid paint care product if left to stand for too long of a time on single stage paint can act to stain the paint. This is usually not a problem and simply picking up the excess with your pad and working it into the paint will even out the appearance by equally coating the entire surface.

I just want to point out that older single stage paints can and do absorb some types of liquids, so pay attention and either avoid this technique on single stage paints, or work quickly to spread the dabs of product out before any concentrated dabs of product soak into the paint.

Again, it's not really a problem, just want to make you aware because single stage paints are not very common and a lot of people have never worked on these types of paints.



From bottle directly to the car
Another method is to dab a small amount of wax or paint sealant onto the car's paint right out of the can or bottle. Again, just like the kissing the finish technique, as you move around the car spreading the wax, when you come up to one of these a little dabs of wax, tilt the polisher to lift one edge of the pad off the surface and then after snagging the product under the pad lay the pad flat and continue working the wax over the panels.


Apply wax or paint sealant to entire car at one time
Unlike working with compounds, swirl removers and polishes, which you only work a small section at a time and then immediately wipe off the leftover residue,you generally apply a wax or paint sealant to the entire car and then after it fully dries you remove it. Oftentimes there's a space of time to enjoy a cold beverage or do some other detailing function like dress the tires or clean the glass.


Allow the wax or paint sealant to dry
Unlike compounds, swirl mark removers and polishes, with most waxes and paint sealants you want to apply a thin coating and then allow enough time to pass to let the coating fully dry before removing it. The idea behind applying a wax or paint sealant to your car's paint is to create and leave behind a barrier-coating of protection.

Part of how the protection ingredients bond or stick to the paint is through the drying process. If you remove the wax or paint sealant before it fully dries you will in essence be wiping some of the protection ingredients off the surface. Read the directions for specific instructions by the manufacture as to how long to leave the product on and use that as your guide.


The Swipe Test
The directions on most labels for the various waxes and paint sealants on the market will state to allow the product to dry for 15 to 20 minutes or allow the product to dry to a haze. These are general indicators. A more specific indicator is called the Swipe Test.

The Swipe Test is where you take your clean finger and give a waxed panel a brisk swipe with your clean fingertip. Then you inspect the swiped area to see if it's clear and glossy or if it looks smeary. If it's clear and glossy then this indicates the wax or paint sealant is ready to remove. If the swiped area looks smeary then this indicates wax or paint sealant is still wet and it needs more time to dry. Simple and accurate.


Removing the dried wax or paint sealant
When the Swipe Test indicates the wax or paint sealant is ready to remove, you can remove it the traditional way by hand or you can use a microfiber bonnet on a foam cutting pad on your DA Polisher.


Removing Wax by Hand
Removing wax by hand is pretty basic but here's a few tips to help ensure you remove the wax in a gentle manner so as not to instill any swirls or scratches in the process.

First, fold a plush microfiber polishing cloth 4-ways to provide you with a thick, plush wiping cloth with 8 dedicated sides you can use to remove and hold wax. This will also create plenty of cushion to help spread out the pressure from your hand.









Next, and this is key, place the microfiber onto a panel and then place your hand on top of the microfiber polishing cloth and then gently twist the microfiber a few times like this,




This is called breaking the wax or breaking the wax open.


Once you have a shiny spot, turn the microfiber over to a clean side and place it back onto the shiny spot. Now from here, take your hand and do the Pac Man, which means start taking little bites out of the wax coating using overlapping circular motions.

Re-fold your microfiber to a new, clean side often and also shake your microfiber polishing cloth before re-folding to allow dried wax to fall off of it.

The idea is to break open the continuous layer of wax and then once you've broke open a spot, start to creep-out. No, I don't mean get weird on us, I mean move-out from the shiny spot by taking little bites out of the dried wax. This is a very gentle way to remove wax and there are two key things to keep in mind,

1. Always use your best, softest microfiber polishing cloths.
2. Taking little bites, not big bites.

A 16" microfiber folded 4-ways gives you a surface area for your hand that is 8" square with plenty of cushion to spread out the pressure from your hand.

As long as you're only taking off little bites or swipes, the microfiber cloth will have more leverage over the bond the wax has on the paint and thus the wax will wipe off easy. This assumes you have a stronger arm than my elderly Grandma bless her soul.

Continue this method and work your way around the car. Have plenty of premium quality microfiber polishing cloths on hand and switch to a new, clean microfiber as the current one loads up with dried residue. I like to have a cloth in each hand as often times I'll use one hand to support myself while I'm removing wax from off lower panels. This way I don't get dirt or finger oils on the freshly wiped-off paint

After you've worked your way around the car and removed the majority of all the dried residue then give the paint a final wipe using the technique outlined here,

The Final Wipe


The only time this technique doesn't work is if you've applied too thick of a coating of a wax like the Meguiar’s M16 Professional Paste Wax which should never be applied thick but all to often is by Newbies thinking more is better.

Here in the U.S. and probably the rest of the world people think like this,

"If a little is good, more is better"

When it comes to car care products that's rarely true and usually the opposite is more accurate and that is, less is best.

The only time a little is good but more is better is when it comes to my gas tank or my bank account.



Removing wax using the PC 7424XP
Some people like to remove dried wax by hand and some people like to use the dual action polisher to do this job. It really comes down to personal preference. I can also make a case for using the machine but not in this article. So for now, here's a few tips and techniques for using the PC 7424XP to remove dried wax or paint sealant.

First and foremost, the layer of wax MUST be a thin coat that is completely dried. If the layer is thick and still wet, (and if it's thick then that means it will take longer to dry so it's possible it's still wet), then you won't get very far trying to remove the wax or paint sealant by machine as your microfiber will load up with wax very quickly and reach a saturation point that it will stop removing the product, or at least stop removing it completely.

After reading this article you should be practicing the art of applying a thin coating and allowing the coating to fully dry as proven by your Swipe Test. If you have all your ducks in a row then the dried wax or paint sealant will remove off the paint as easy as a summer breeze.


How to use a microfiber bonnet to remove dried wax by machine

Indigo on Hydro







If you own a DA Polisher, like a Porter Cable, Meguiar’s or Griot’s Garage DA Polisher, then here’s how you can use your polisher to remove dried wax.

Removing dried wax by machine works best when you apply a thin coat to start with and the best way to apply a thin coat of wax is by machine. Of course if you already own a DA Polisher than you probably already know this and already apply your waxes by machine. So let’s take a look at removing dried wax by machine.

Waxes that dry to a haze
The first thing I want to point out is removing wax works best if you’re using a wax that is supposed to dry to a haze, this is because once it’s grip is loosened from the paint because it’s dry it doesn’t try to stick to the paint. Waxes that dry to a haze also won’t dampen the microfiber bonnet and the nap won’t load up as easily or quickly as will happen when removing a wipe on, wipe off wax.

Wipe On, Wipe Off Waxes
First, if you’re removing a wax that is still wet it won’t take very long for the wetness of the product to dampen the nap of the microfiber bonnet and tend to load up until the nap is coated with wet wax. At this point it will more or less stop removing the wax efficiently until you change to a dry microfiber. So while it can be done, removing wax by machine works best when used to remove waxes that have dried to a haze.

Firm, Dense Pads
The key to removing dried wax using a DA Polisher is a firm pad like a foam cutting pad or a Lambswool pad. My personal preference has always been to use a foam pad because it provides a level of cushion due to the nature of the foam cell wall structure, the Lambswool has no foam cushion, it is simply a soft lambswools skin with a Hook-n-Loop backing glued to the skin side of the Lambswool. The foam cushioning feature also enables the pad to conform to a curves and body lines better than the hard, flat feature provided by the lambswool pad with a microfiber bonnet over it.

Any of these foam pads work well for removing dried wax,

5.5” Lake Country Flat Yellow Cutting Pad
5.5” Lake country Flat Orange Light Cutting Pad
5.5” Lake Country CCS Yellow Cutting Pad
5.5” Lake country CCS Orange Light Cutting Pad
6” Lake Country Purple Kompressor Pad
6” Lake Country Orange Kompressor Pad


Dedicated Pad
Now this is important, when using microfiber bonnets to remove dried wax you only want to use,

• Dry pads

• Clean pads

[B]Dry Pads

If the pad is wet, it will transfer its liquid to the microfiber and get it wet; this will dramatically reduce its ability to remove wax. So don’t try to use a pad that’s either wet with product or wet after being washed clean.


Clean pads
If your pad has been previously used to apply some kind of paint care product and it’s dry, the dried residue in the pores of the foam pad will shake loose and accumulate inside the bonnet. This will contaminate that side of the bonnet making it unusable.

The best thing to do is to dedicate a pad to go with your bonnets and don’t ever use that pad for any machine cleaning or polishing work. If possible, you can mark the back with Sharpie permanent marker.


Reversible Bonnets
Microfiber bonnets are pretty much all reversible so you can use one side till it loads up with dried wax and then remove it, turn it inside out, give it a shake and put back onto your buffing pad and get back to work with the other side. I’ll show you my technique for cleaning your bonnet on the fly and often times you can remove all the wax off an average size car with just one side of bonnet.


Swipe Test
The first thing you want to do is to test the wax to make sure it’s dry and ready to remove and you do this with what’s called the Swipe Test. Once the swipe test shows the wax is ready to remove, you can begin removing the wax by machine.


Removing the Wax
It doesn’t matter much where you start but the normal protocol would be to start where you started when you applied the wax and then follow your path of travel. Another way is to just start at the top and work your way down.


Work Area Size
Basically as far as you can reach and manage comfortably. When removing defects you only want to work a small section at at time. When applying a liquid wax by machine and when removing dried wax by machine you can basically tackle as large an area as you like.


Speed Setting
You need a fast speed setting to remove the wax, I tend to use the 5.0 Speed Setting as it’s not as violent as the 6.0 speed setting but you need to at least be on the 5.0 speed setting.


Downward Pressure
You want to use firm downward pressure when removing the wax. The reason for this is you want the nap of the microfiber slicing into the coating of wax and then breaking it up and this cannot be accomplished with light pressure.


VERY IMPORTANT
Don’t lift the face of the buffing pad off the car at any time when operating the polisher at high speeds, if you do the pad rotation will quickly speed up and chances are very good your buffing pad will fly off the backing plate and land on the ground somewhere where it will become contaminated with dirt and unusable.

A technique for how to move the polisher from panel to panel without having the pad fly off even though you don’t turn the polisher off is to at the same time you lift the pad off the surface, quickly place your clean hand against the pad, this won't hurt you and will keep the pad from flying off the polisher till you touch it down again on a new panel, for example going from the roof to the hood, or from the hood to a side mirror, etc.


Benefits to machine removal of wax
First of all, removing wax by machine is personal preference; some people like this technique while others prefer to simply wipe-off waxes by hand.

Using a microfiber bonnet over a foam cutting pad provides equal pressure over the entire face of the pad and removes any pressure points created typically by your fingertips when wiping off by hand.

For some people, letting the machine do the work might be a physical advantage than using their arms and shoulders to wipe the wax off, just depends upon the physical limitations of the person.


Variation on the bonnetSome people will simply place a microfiber flat onto the paint and then place a clean, dry buffing pad against the microfiber and remove wax using the microfiber trapped between the pad and the paint. I’m not a big fan of this method because the microfiber towel can easily work its way out from under the pad, especially if you try this on a vertical panel.




Cleaning the bonnet on the fly
Another option is to clean the bonnet on the fly. With the polisher still running, tilt the polisher so there's always an edge of the bonnet-covered pad touching the paint so the pad doesn't go flying off.

Now take your fingertips and place them against the face of the pad that's raised off the surface in the air and transfer the pressure from the car panel to your fingertips, more precisely, to your fingernails. With pressure against the face of the pad with your fingertips/fingernails carefully move the pad into the air to the side of the car, the pressure from your fingers will keep the pad from flying off.

Now carefully lessen the pressure of your fingernails against the face of the pad and let the pad rotate freely in the air but controlled all the while by you and your pressure against the bonnet.

Now move your fingernails from the inside to the outer edge of the bonnet somewhat like a wood chisel against a piece of wood on a lathe. What you're doing is letting your fingernails lift the fibers of the nap and loosen the stuck-on wax allowing it to fall off the bonnet and onto the floor. After you've made a few passes like this move the polisher back over to the area you left off at and touch an edge of the pad/bonnet back onto the paint. Quickly remove your fingers while at the same time laying the pad back against the panel so that it's flat against the paint. Continue moving the buffer over the paint allowing the bonnet to remove the wax.

Repeat often as you work around the car. Basically you're using your fingernails to lift and separate the microfiber nap so the dried residue will fly off leaving your a mostly clean and ready to use bonnet to continue removing wax with.


Using this technique you can usually remove all the wax with just one side of the bonnet but feel free to reverse the bonnet of switch to a new/clean bonnet as you feel necessary.

After you go around the car and remove the majority of the wax then use the The Final Wipe to make the final wipe.


Warning: Don't lift the bonnet/pad off the surface as it will spin up to maximum speed and in most cases the pad will tear loose from the backing plate and go flying across the room usually landing someplace really dirty like the corner of the floor.


Note: Only use a clean, never-before-used foam cutting pad for the backing underneath of your microfiber polishing bonnet. Using a used bonnet with dried residue can introduce contaminants to the inner side of the bonnet and then you risk inflicting swirls or marring.

Only use a dry pad under your bonnet. If you use a pad that is wet with product the bonnet will absorb the liquid and become wet. A wet bonnet won't work to remove wax and may cause a smeary mess.

If you want to use this technique then dedicate a pad solely for use under your microfiber bonnet by marking it with a permanent marker and then store it in a clean, dry place.

[Mike Phillips]

^^ thanks I will try that first

Does the above help?

[Mike Phillips]

Had one more thing to share, sort of a trouble shooting guide...

Here's a list of the most common problems

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
2. Move the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Too little pressure on the head of the unit.
5. Too much pressure on the head of the unit so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not keeping the pad flat while working your product.
7. Too much product, too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

• Shrink your work area down, the harder the paint the smaller the area you can work. The average area should be and average of about 16" by 16" up to 20" by 20" or so. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot.

• For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's really easy to move the polisher too quickly because the sound of the motor spinning fast has a psychological effect to for some reason want to make people move the polisher fast. Also the way most people think is that, "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster", but it doesn't work that way.

• When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting, again... this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the diminishing abrasives, the foam type, and the pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches. It's a leveling process that's somewhat difficult because the tool is safe/gentle while in most cases, modern clear coat paints are harder than traditional single stage paints and this makes them hard to work on. This is also why people get frustrated, they don't understand paint technology, all they know is their paint swirls easy and getting the swirls out is difficult and thus frustrating.

• For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much pressure and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.

• Just the opposite of item #4, people think that by pushing harder on the polisher they can work faster and be more aggressive, but the truth is the free floating spindle assembly in the tool is a safety mechanism to prevent burning and will cause the pad to stop rotating, thus less cleaning or abrading action and once in a while this will lead a person to then post on the forum something like this, "Hey my pad doesn't rotate". There needs to be a balance of enough pressure to remove defects and keep the pad rotating but yet not too much pressure as to stop the rotating action. This balance is affected by a lot of things, things like type of chemical, some chemicals provide more lubrication and the pad will spin easier, curved surfaces or any raise in body lines will tend to stop the pad from rotating. This is where experience on how to address these areas comes into play or you do the best you can and move on. It's not a perfect tool, nor a perfect system, but it's almost always better than working/cleaning by hand.

• Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one side of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease cleaning ability.

• Too much product over lubricates the surface and this won't allow the diminishing abrasives to do their job plus it will increase the potential for messy splatter as well as cause pad saturation. Too little product will keep the pad from rotating due to no lubrication and there won't be enough diminishing abrasives to do any work. Again it's a balance that comes with experience, or another way of saying this would be it's a balance that comes with hours of buffing out a car to learn what to do and what not to do. Information like what you're reading here is just an edge to decrease your learning curve. Hope this is helping.

• Most people don't clean their pad often enough and most of the time the reason for this is because they don't know they're supposed to clean their pad often and they don't know how to clean their pad. Again, that's why this forum is here to help you with both of these things. You should clean your pad after every application of product or every other application of product, your choice, most of the time cleaning your pad after every other application of product works pretty well. It enables you to work clean and enables the foam pad, the polisher and the next application of fresh product too all work effectively. How to clean your pad will be addressed below sooner versus later, but not at the time of this posting.

[jhallhall]

Thanks mike thats some great information...not to mention a good read