Time to update!

[k_christman]

Mike i've been using a Snap On Rotary buffer that is probably 10 to 15 years old and weighs a ton, maybe 15 pounds. I feel i'm in need of something new. I've done alittle research and i've came down to the flex xc 3401 vrg and the cyclo. I like both but can't choose. I was hoping you could shed some light on these products and if not tell me what you think the best overall buffer is with price out the door. I feel it will be an investment so im not to worried about price. Just give me your opinion

[Mike Phillips]

Since this is your first post, welcome to Autogeek Online!

Mike i've been using a Snap On Rotary buffer that is probably 10 to 15 years old and weighs a ton, maybe 15 pounds. I feel i'm in need of something new.

At 15 pounds that's a pretty heavy rotary buffer, reminds me of some old Milwaukee's I've used... the weight does all the work for you on a horizontal panel but gives you a great upper body workout for vertical panels.

I've done alittle research and i've came down to the flex xc 3401 vrg and the cyclo. I like both but can't choose. I was hoping you could shed some light on these products and if not tell me what you think the best overall buffer is with price out the door. I feel it will be an investment so im not to worried about price. Just give me your opinion

These are both very different tools, don't know how much you've been lurking here before joining and posting but in the last few months we've had some very spirited discussions an "which tool is best" and there is no definitive answers be people are different and so there's no one tool fits all people's preferences solution.

The Flex 3401 and the Cyclo are bot dual action polishers but are very different tools, I know guys that love both and to be honest, used correctly they can both do the same type of work and get stellar results.

2 Questions...

1. What are you mostly buffing out? Your cars? Customer cars? Are you wet-sanding cars?

2. Have you read this?

How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project

[k_christman]

I was just wondering your opinion on the most user friendly best all round polisher that i can use on my vehicle and/or someone elses. But thanks Mike! i Really appreciate it

[Dubbin1]

The Flex is going to be the better "all around" polisher over the Cyclo as it will get into tighter spaces.

[Mike Phillips]

I was just wondering your opinion on the most user friendly best all round polisher that i can use on my vehicle and/or someone else's. But thanks Mike! i Really appreciate it

I answer that question in the link I gave you, each tool has a "Ease of use ranking" from 1 to 5


Here's a quote from the the top of the article,

Ease of Use Ranking
Each of the tools below are also graded as to their ease of use using a scale from 1 to 5, with 1 being the easiest and 5 being the most difficult.

The easiest tools to learn to use and master are the DA Style Polishers, and specifically the single head polisher which have a free floating spindle assembly, this wold be

• Porter Cable 7424XP
• Meguiar's G110v2
• Griot's Garage 6" ROP

After that would be the Cyclo, after the Cyclo is the Flex 3401, after that are the Rotary Buffers.

So as to a specific answer to your question, if you want to know the easiest to learn and use between the Cyclo and the Flex 3401 I would choose the Cyclo as it's very easy to use.

The Flex has a strong following of vocal supporters but if you don't hold the pad completely flat at all times because of it's long or large orbit it will try to walk on you if pressure is uneven on the face of the buffing pad.

The Cyclo is pretty easy to use, lightweight and very well balanced. They both have features and benefits that are different than one another so there is no way to that everyone is going to ever agree 100% that one is better than the other.



Here's the article,

How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project

This is just a general guide to help you choose the right polisher for your detailing needs. Power Tools are to guys like shoes are to women, you can never have too many. So perhaps don't limit yourself to just one category of tool, instead put yourself on a path that will eventually include at least one tool from each category. Every 6 months or once a year reward yourself with a shopping spree and add another polisher to your arsenal of detailing tools.

Ease of Use Ranking
Each of the tools below are also graded as to their ease of use using a scale from 1 to 5, with 1 being the easiest and 5 being the most difficult.


In order of ease of use to learn how to get great results...




Single Head - Random Orbital Polishers - Free Rotating Spindle Assemblies
Ease of Use Ranking: 1

These are without a doubt the easiest electric polisher to learn how to use and master in the shortest amount of time. The biggest benefit is they are absolutely user friendly in that because of their free rotating spindle assemblies you can't burn through the paint and as long as you're using DA approved pads and products you can't instill swirls and in fact you can use them to remove swirls safely and effectively.

They are lightweight, easy to control easy to use on both horizontal panels as well as vertical panels.

They are versatile in that you can use them to remove swirls, polish paint to a high gloss, apply a wax or paint sealant and even use them to remove the wax or paint sealant after it's dried.

If you've always used your hand to take care of your car's paint or a Traditional Orbital Buffer, then a Single Head, Random Orbital Polisher is a great next step in your detailing evolution.

Commonly referred to as Dual Action Polishers or DA style polishers, these polishers are great for,

• People new to machine polishing
• People looking for a safe, but more powerful polisher as compared to a Traditional Orbital Buffer
• People who only take care of their own car or their family's cars.
• Anyone wanting to start a part-time or full-time detailing business
• Anyone with a detailing business that wants to add a DA Style polisher to their arsenal.
• People that work in body shops looking for a tool to insure swirl free finish.
• Teenage boys and girls interested in the detailing hobby
• Boat owners looking for a better way to maintain their boat
• RV owners looking for a better and faster way to maintain their RVs
• Airplane owners looking for a safer, faster way to maintain their airplane's finish

Dual Action Polishers are both great entry level polishers and tools seasoned professionals use to create a true, swirl-free, show car finish.

There's lots of options when it comes to designs, sizes add types of buffing pads for these tools with more new pads being introduced all the time.

All the DA Polishers offered by Autogeek.net are quality tools that will help you maintain your cars better and faster.

Drive Mechanism - Free Rotating Spindle Assemble

From left to right...
Porter Cable 7424XP - Meguiar's G110v2 - Griot's Garage ROP - Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher


Close-ups...








Dual Head - Random Orbital Polisher
Ease of Use Ranking: 2

The dual head Cyclo Polisher is also a very easy electric polisher to learn how to use as it's lightweight and well-balanced making it easy hold and control. It takes a tick more practice to master the polishing power of the dual random orbital buffing heads but nothing that can't be self-taught the first time you use this tool.

The Cyclo Polisher has been around since 1952 with a time-proven track record. These tools have been used for decades for not only polishing paint but they started out as polishers for machine polishing aluminum to create brilliant, chrome like finishes on Airstream Travel Trailers, Vintage Airplanes, and aluminum tanks on Tanker Trucks.

The Cyclo Polisher is versatile in that you can remove the Rubber Pad Holders and install a variety of different brushes for cleaning carpet, upholstery, leather, fabrics, tile and grout.






These polishers are great for,

• People new to machine polishing
• People looking for a safe, but more powerful polisher as compared to a Traditional Orbital Buffer
• People who only take care of their own car or their family's cars.
• Anyone wanting to start a part-time or full-time detailing business
• Anyone with a detailing business that wants to add a multi-purpose tool to their detailing arsenal.
• People that work in body shops looking for a tool to insure swirl free finish.
• Teenage boys and girls interested in the detailing hobby
• Boat owners looking for a better way to maintain their boat
• RV owners looking for a better and faster way to maintain their RVs
• Airplane owners looking for a safer, faster way to maintain their airplane's finish

The Cyclo Polisher is a well-built and well-engineered polisher that offers you the ability to perform a lot of different detailing procedures from just one tool. Chances are very good it will outlast you too!




Hybrid - Forced Rotation Random Orbital Polisher
Ease of Use Ranking: 3

The Flex 3401 is referred to as a Hybrid Polisher because it's unique among the more well-known polishers in that it is a forced rotation dual action polisher.

What this means is that the buffing head oscillates at the same time it's rotating which is what the above Dual Action Polishers do except that this unit is uses a direct drive mechanical action which forces the pad to both rotate and oscillate with no allowance for slippage.

This gives this tool most of the power associated with direct drive rotary buffers but the safety of a dual action polisher in that you can't heat up the paint and burn through it and you also can't instill swirls as long as you use pads and products recommended for use with dual action polishers.

These tools are like a bridge between a dual action polisher and a rotary buffer.

The learning curve for mastering a polisher like this is a little steeper than the learning curve for a dual action polisher if you're new to machine polishing. If you're an experienced with a dual action polisher it a very easy tool to advanced to and master and if you're a seasoned craftsman with a rotary buffer it will take you about 5 minutes to learn the differences in how this tool handles as compared to a rotary buffer.






These polishers are great for,

• People new to machine polishing but consider themselves quick learners with better than average upper body strength. It's not that they require more muscle to operate it just that they require that a new operator pay more attention to the task at hand.
• People looking for a safe, but more powerful polisher as compared to a Traditional Orbital Buffer
• People who only take care of their own car or their family's cars.
• Anyone wanting to start a part-time or full-time detailing business
• Anyone with a detailing business that wants to add a multi-purpose tool to their detailing arsenal.
• People that work in body shops looking for a tool to insure swirl free finish.
• Boat owners looking for a better way to maintain their boat
• RV owners looking for a better and faster way to maintain their RVs
• Airplane owners looking for a safer, faster way to maintain their airplane's finish

This is a tool that offers a lot more correction ability than a dual action polisher or a Cyclo Polisher but its operation is quite a bit different than the how a dual action polisher feels or a Cyclo Polisher feels when operating one.

If you ever have a chance to test drive one of these polishers by using a friends or attending a class or seminar where they have one you can test out, definitely give it a try. The majority of people that take the plunge and purchase one of these types of polishers become loyal fans of this tool and strong proponents for it and are always willing to share their experience on how to best use it on discussion forums.




Direct Drive Rotary Buffers - Circular Polishers
Ease of Use Ranking: 4 - Flex Lightweight
Ease of Use Ranking: 5 - Full size Models


Rotary Buffers are the tool of choice for professionals in the refinishing industry, (body shops where new paint is sprayed), and the reconditioning industry, (car detailing both mobile detailers and fixed locations.

Rotary Buffers, also referred to as Circular Polishers use powerful electric motors to power direct drive gear systems that force a spindle to rotate in one circular direction. When you place a backing plate and a buffing pad onto the spindle you now have a tool that offers a the most correction ability out of all the tools listed here. Another way of saying this is a rotary buffer has the ability to remove a lot of paint fast.

Now I know that never sounds good but remember the industries this tool is targeted at and designed for and that's body shops and detail shops.

In a body shop situation, often times after a car is sprayed with fresh paint, after the paint dries it may be wet-sanded or color sanded to remove Orange Peel by sanding the textured surface flat. After the finish is sanded flat the next step is to remove the sanding marks which is requires a polisher that has a lot of power to cut into the paint and level it thus removing the sanding marks or sanding scratches.

In the detailing industry, a lot of seasoned professional detailers will want to use a rotary buffer for the same reason, that is they want to use a tool to remove a lot of paint quickly only instead of removing a controlled pattern of sanding marks they want to remove uncontrolled or random deeper defects like swirls, scratches, etching and water spots.

The other tools listed above like the dual action polishers, the Cyclo Polisher and the Hybrid Flex 3401 can all remove these types of deeper, serious defects but just not as quickly as they don't have the same type of power.

This power is a double-edged sword as it enables the user to quickly remove serous paint defects but if the user is not careful they can also heat up the paint on a high point or body line and actually burn or grind through the paint to expose the underlying layer of paint and in some cases the actual metal that makes up a panel.

So with greater power comes the responsibility to master the tool so you don't make mistakes.

Now listed this category as having both an Ease of Use Ranking of 4 and 5 because in this category there is a smaller, lightweight rotary buffer and its small size and lightweight make it dramatically easier to control and mastering a rotary buffer is matter of learning to control a rotary buffer.

The full size traditional models weigh more and their physically larger size just makes them a couple ticks more difficult to learn to control and to actually control when buffing out complete cars.

The learning curve of mastering a rotary buffer is the steepest and longest of all these tools and the tired and true way to learn the way of the rotary buffer is with a combination of education, hands-on training and real-world experience, lots of real-world experience.










These polishers are great for,

• Anyone with a detailing business that wants to add a more powerful tool to their detailing arsenal.
• Enthusiasts that have mastered one or more of the other groups of tools and is now ready to move onto to the rotary buffer.

Compared to the other groups of tools, using a rotary buffer will require the most upper body strength including hands, arms, shoulders, back, stomach and even leg muscles.

At this time for all practical reasons it's a must-have tool if you're going to be sanding and buffing paint; some of the other less powerful tools can remove sanding marks but the rotary buffer is the best tool for the job at the time I'm writing this, at least until new advancements in pads and chemicals are introduced.


Speaking as a detailer that cut his teeth on a very heavy Sioux or Milwaukee Rotary Buffer, if you're interested in in learning to use a rotary buffer then take a strong look at the Flex Lightweight Rotary Buffer, it's is hands down the easiest rotary buffer I've ever used. It's lightweight makes it much more easy to control than it's full size brothers and this will help you to build confidence and skill faster.




Product Showcase - Best of class electric polishers

Here's a list of all our electric polishers that are effective at removing swirls, scratches and water spots out of clear coat paints. Note that all of these polishers are available in Combination Kits that include your choice of a variety of different types and sizes of buffing pads, Swirl Mark Removers, (SMR's), as well as other products and accessories.



Single Head - Random Orbital Polishers - Free Rotating Spindle Assemblies

Porter Cable 7424XP
4.5 AMP
500 Watt Motor
5 pounds
3 Year Limited Warranty - 1 Year Free Service - 90 Days Money Back


Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher
7.0 AMP
850 Watt Motor
5.5 pounds
Griot's Lifetime Warranty


Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher
2.0 AMP
240 Watt Motor
Griot's Lifetime Warranty


Meguiar's G110v2
4.2 AMP
430 Watt Motor
5 pounds
1 Year Limited Warranty


Dual Head - Random Orbital Polisher

Cyclo Polisher
1 Year Limited Warranty




Hybrid - Forced Rotation Random Orbital Polisher

Flex 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher
7.5 Amps
590 Watts
6 Pounds
1 Year Limited Warranty



Direct Drive Rotary Buffers - Circular Polishers

Flex 3403 Lightweight Rotary Buffer
11.5 Amps
1100 to 3700 RPM
5 Pounds
1 Year Limited Warranty



Makita 9227C Rotary Buffer
10 Amps
600 to 3000 RPM
7 Pounds
30-Day, No-Risk, Satisfaction Guarantee
1 year Warranty



DeWalt 849 Rotary Buffer
8 Amps
1000 to 3000 RPM
8 Pounds
30-Day, No-Risk, Satisfaction Guarantee
1 Year Free Service Contract
1 year Warranty


Flex 630 Rotary Buffer
8 Amps
1000 to 3000 RPM
8 Pounds

[Mike Phillips]

The Flex is going to be the better "all around" polisher over the Cyclo as it will get into tighter spaces.

Here's a good example about how everyone will have a different opinion.


If you re-read everything I wrote about both the Cyclo and the Flex 3401 you'll note I never said one is better than the other, I said they are different from one another.

As for which one is easiest to remove from the box, turn it on and start polishing with it I'll stick by my answer and say that the Cyclo is easier to learn how to use and master. The Flex takes a little more practice to learn how to use and master.


Here's a video of me using the Cyclo and it give you a good idea of how easy it is to control

How to use the Cyclo Polisher to remove swirls and scratches

Here's a video of me using the Flex 3401, in the video it looks easy to use as I pick up a bead without even trying and then remove all the swirls with no effort but I've been doing this a while...

How to do a Test Spot using the Flex 3401

Again, if anyone is interested in the differences between the different polishers, take a moment to read my article on the different polishers, it's actually quite d-e-t-a-i-l-e-d.

[rohnramirez]

I think he got more confused than ever..lol

But just a quick question to k_christman, since you already have a 15 lb. rotary polisher, why are you considering a DA/ROP as an upgrade? I would still go with a Rotary, either the Makita 9227cb or the Flex lightweight 3403. Oh, by the way, welcome to AGO!

If you're really into a DA, you're better off with the flex 3401.

[JohnHenry]

Welcome, k_christman.


Excellent post, Mike! This is one for the notebook.

[Mike Phillips]

Mike I've been using a Snap On Rotary buffer that is probably 10 to 15 years old and weighs a ton, maybe 15 pounds. I feel I'm in need of something new. I've done alittle research and I've came down to the flex xc 3401 vrg and the cyclo. I like both but can't choose.

Since you're experienced with the rotary buffer, go with the Flex 3401, here's why,

From my article on picking the right polisher in the section on using the Flex 3401, I wrote,

if you're a seasoned craftsman with a rotary buffer it will take you about 5 minutes to learn the differences in how this tool handles as compared to a rotary buffer.

Your experience with the rotary will make it so easy to learn how to use the Flex 3401.