Key scratch removal - beginner needs help

**Kap1** · 12-29-2015, 03:30 AM

Hi Everyone!

I'm pretty new at car detailing, and enjoy doing it for fun, mostly on my family cars.

Would you please review my work/photos, and let me know what i did wrong here? The result i got is not satisfactory...

On the bright side i did NOT burn through the paint

My Ram 1500 2013 truck Maximum Steel color tailgate got keyed pretty bad about a year ago, and I've been preparing to try to do fix on it by myself - done lots lots of research and decided to go for it! Why not...

If i do a "nail test" on the scratch, the nail definitely makes sound and it seems that they got all the way to primer in most areas of the long 4ft scratch.

Here's what i've done:

1. Wash/clay the tailgate, used IPA 96% to clean the scratch. See photo attached "before work done"

2. Filled-in the scratch with 3 layers of touch-up paint that i got from dealership, 30 min dry time between each layer. See photo attached.

3. Next day, added 2 more layers to completely fill-up the scratch and tried to put a bit of a hump over it. Let it dry for 15 hours.
4. I set-up my PC polisher fitted with 3inch back plate, 3 inch Meguiar's Foam interface pad, and 3in Meg's Ungrit 3000 Finishing sand disks

I began carefully sanding the scratch on 4 speed with spraying little of water and wiping off clear coat residue. I was careful to not burn through the clear or the paint. (i think that maybe i should have done it more and leveled the surface a bit more...) but it was all a guess since i have no way to measure paint thickness. See photo.

5. After i was done sanding/leveling. I used my PC with 3in purple LC-58-4235 wool pad with Menzerna SI1500 which took out the 3000 grit sanding marks in seconds and made it glossy again.

Once i was done with buffing, the scratch felt almost glass smooth if i run my nail over it - so it seemed like surface was leveled pretty well... not super perfect though.

However, as you can see on the picture, the outline of the scratch is clearly visible again, and it's sort of shiny/sparkly... It looked better before i began sanding/leveling as the scratch looked dark at least, and did not stand out as much.

Would you please analyse my approach and let me know what could i have done better to get better result?

Questions:

1. If i wait longer between the layers, what would that do?
2. I was working outside, it was about 50 degrees cold. Is this significant for paint drying?
3. There is very very little information on the forums on doing wet sanding with a PC/3 inch pads. Most definitely no info on wet sanding with PC when repairing deep scratches - any big reason not to do this? Everybody fixes these by hand wet sanding. Why??? so much faster/easier by PC.
4. Should have i went further and keep sanding/leveling the paint until it's super glass smooth?
5. Maybe the scratch is visible like this because my paint color (Maximum Steel) has small reflective pieces in it that shine when on the sun? Looks like they the shiny pieces all lined up together in the scratch now lol... maybe i should have used different darker touch-up paint instead of my original one?
6. How much apprx would it cost to get tailgate repainted at a shop?
7. Would it have helped if i tried to also hand sand into the scratch to try to smooth out the sides/edges of the scratch?

The stupid scratch did not bother me for past 1.5 years, now it's bothering me because i did not get the result that i was hoping for. I'm debating if i should get the tailgate repainted at a body shop.

Is there anything else i can try to make this scratch less visible? Re-do whole procedure again?

Thank you all very very much for any feedback! Looking forward to learning what to do and what not to do, and WHY

**Mike@DedicatedPerfection** · 12-29-2015, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Kap1

Hi Everyone!

Hi! Welcome to AutoGeekOnline!

Would you please review my work/photos, and let me know what i did wrong here? The result i got is not satisfactory...

Questions:

1. If i wait longer between the layers, what would that do?
2. I was working outside, it was about 50 degrees cold. Is this significant for paint drying?
3. There is very very little information on the forums on doing wet sanding with a PC/3 inch pads. Most definitely no info on wet sanding with PC when repairing deep scratches - any big reason not to do this? Everybody fixes these by hand wet sanding. Why??? so much faster/easier by PC.
4. Should have i went further and keep sanding/leveling the paint until it's super glass smooth?
5. Maybe the scratch is visible like this because my paint color (Maximum Steel) has small reflective pieces in it (called metallic flake) that shine when on the sun? Looks like they the shiny pieces all lined up together in the scratch now lol... maybe i should have used different darker touch-up paint instead of my original one?
6. How much apprx would it cost to get tailgate repainted at a shop?
7. Would it have helped if i tried to also hand sand into the scratch to try to smooth out the sides/edges of the scratch?

I'm debating if i should get the tailgate repainted at a body shop.

Is there anything else i can try to make this scratch less visible? Re-do whole procedure again?

Thank you all very very much for any feedback! Looking forward to learning what to do and what not to do, and WHY

1. You should get everything accomplished within a certain time frame. Not between days. In one session with timed intervals the paint will stick and cure all together.
2. That is rather cold to work with paint regardless of touch up paint or any other form of painting operation. You would have to vary the level of hardener as well as other mixing agents depending on the level of temperature and humidity. That goes, more for spraying from a paint gun in a booth however touch up paint should be used in warmer environments.
3. I'm pretty sure Mike Phillips has more on this topic. I suppose I could put something together as well.
4. For best results the scratch should be completely filled in before leveling out via sanding.
5. Paint with high levels of metallic flake will be next to impossible to get right when filling scratches.
6. Stop by some paint shops to get some estimates. Being that it is a tailgate remove it from the truck and just bring them the gate. Your labor will save some $
7. Yes. I would have started off with one of Meguiar's unigrit sanding blocks such as the K-2000 to focus on reducing the raised paint down level to the surface and then picked up with the machine equipped with the 3" plate/interface pad/3K drit foamed back sanding paper.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...-k-1000-a.html

Here is an article by Mike on damp-sanding via machine.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...-phillips.html

Plenty more stickied links can be found here in the Wet-Sanding, Cutting & Buffing Wet-Sanding, Cutting & Buffing subforum by Mike.
Wet-Sanding, Cutting & Buffing - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum

**hollerstiltner** · 12-29-2015, 08:23 AM

I'm in much the same problem you are, just on a smaller scale. I had a gouge in my door from a knife handle.

I tried to match it, but nothing ever matched perfectly. The closest I came was from layering the paint slightly below level and clearing over it. Anytime I touched the paint (not the clear) it would do what your seeing. The touch up paint would look much lighter than before.

I've still not sanded the clear layer flush with the surrounding yet. Life got hectic.

Mike Phillips · 12-29-2015, 08:39 AM

Wow! You did a lot of work only to get mediocre results.

I've been answering questions on touch up paint repair for years and here's something I always say....

Sometimes more and more work doesn't get you better and better results.

You're in a cycle now. You've already sanded the factory thin paint surrounding the scratch. If you try to start over and then do more sanding on the factory thin paint I think you're going to risk burning through the clear surrounding the scratch and then it will be hello body shop.

Remember,

Sanding removes paint.
Compounding removes paint.
Polishing removes paint.

And factory clear is thin to start with.

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips

One thing for sure... I admire your tenacity and focus to detail.

I propose a solution, not sure if you like it but it is an option. In one of the recent how-to videos we made here with Dr. Color Chip, I'm pretty sure Dan McCool states in the video you can remove other companies touch up paint using Acetone and the Acetone won't hurt factory clearcoat.

Acetone is some very nasty stuff. You don't want it on your skin at all as it's systemic, that is it will penetrate into your body and harm your organs.

It will remove most touch up paint however.

Remove all the touch up paint and then start over using the Dr. Color Chip system. It's easy to use and if you make a mistake or your not happy you simply use their SealAct Solution to remove the touch-up paint and start over.

I teach how to use the Dr. Color Chip System in my 3-day Competition Ready detailing classes. The first thing I teach is to lower your expectations for a perfect repair. That's what most people expect, a perfect repair. That's called a paint job.

I also explain this in DETAIL in my how-to article on this topic here,

How to use the Dr. ColorChip Paint Chip Repair Systems

Anyway... you can get the results good enough that standing back 5 feet you're eyes are not drawn to the repair work like they would be without the repair work and you can move on in life.

Mike Phillips · 12-29-2015, 08:45 AM

Just to add....

There's a thread on our forum on how to do a key scratch repair and the results look good. Here's the link,

Key Repair-Step by Step Procedure

Then on page 3, post #28 I added this....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nice how-to and write-up Richy,

Originally Posted by richy

The paint was allowed to dry overnight. I finished it at about 1:30 am and didn't get back on to it until 1:00 the next day so it actually had 12 hours to dry.

Couple of comments to anyone ever attempting to do this kind of repair...

1. When possible, let the paint dry longer. You want the touch up paint as dry and hard as possible before you start sanding and buffing on it.

The problem you can run into when you start buffing on touch-up paint is when you warm it up, especially when using a rotary buffer, you can actually pull the touch-up paint right out of the scratch or rock chip if you're attempting to do this to a rock chip. Then you're back to where you started only now you've got sanding marks in the surrounding paint.

2. Touch-up paint will always be softer than the factory paint surrounding the repair, here's how this affects the buffing process. When you go to buff out your sanding marks, they will buff out quickly and easily out of the touch-up paint because this paint is softer, especially if it's only dried a short time. The surrounding paint will be harder and thus it will be harder or more difficult to remove your sanding marks out 100%

It's easy to sand paint as at it's core that's putting scratches into the paint... the tricky part is getting the ALL out...

When doing touch-up repair work on clear coat paints, what I've seen and experienced is the sanding marks come out of the touch-up paint quickly and easily but not so with the factory clear.

So what a person does is continue buffing the sanding marks in the surrounding clear paint and what happens is you heat the panel up and your buffing pad will literally pull the touch-up paint out of the scratch or chip.

3. You really need a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks 100%

Can you do it with a DA or Flex or even Cyclo? Sure but it will take longer. Again the sanding marks will come out of the touch-up paint quickly and easily, it's the surrounding factory baked-on clear coat that you'll need to be concerned with.

Try to finish sand with #3000 or higher before buffing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So be careful you don't turn a Mole Hill into a Mountain when you go to remove your sanding marks, heat up the touch-up paint and YANK it off the body panel.

**Kap1** · 12-29-2015, 03:56 PM

Everyone, thank you very much for all the useful replies!

Mike - i'll consider the Dr. Color Chip approach that you suggested. I may try it when i have time. However a question - wouldn't the the Metallic paint of Dr. CC give me the same issue as i've seen with my current repair - the metal flakes in the paint seemed to made the scratch all sparkly, and stand out a lot?

After going through all the replies, i think my results were so/so because:

1. Paint is metallic color, so even touch up paint is very visible with metallic flakes reflecting light very much in a different way throughout the scratch , so maybe i should have used a different, darker paint... so at least the metallic flakes wont be sparking throughout the scratch.

I really think that the paint color that was in the scratch was really really lighter and sparkly and did not blend in at all - maybe this was my main issue, and if i was working with regular solid color, maybe my results would have been better.

(pat myself on the shoulder - blame it on the color type)

2. Maybe i did "pulled out" some touch paint out from the scratch when i was machine sanding and buffing it with PC...

After i was done with buffing out the scratch, the surface was almost glass smooth but i think it wasn't perfect, and there was a tiny smooth small grove along the scratch.

I guess i should really let each layer of paint dry fully before applying more layers, and maybe try somehow to keep surface cooler when buffing it out.

3. I think that maybe i should have filled up the scratch better. I was about 95% happy with the way i filled up the scratch, but thought that if i did couple of layers more, maybe it would be more filled in, and even more smooth after i leveled it with sander.

4. Maybe if i had made the edges of scratch smoother with sand paper, prior to filling it up with paint, maybe that would have helped to blend in the edges of scratch better and reduce the reflections along the edge of the scratch after repair was finished.

Thank you all. I'm going to find more time to practice on one other old family car with fixing the deep scratches and using the newly learned information.

Mike Phillips · 12-29-2015, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Kap1

Everyone, thank you very much for all the useful replies!

After going through all the replies, i think my results were so/so because:

1. Paint is metallic, so even touch up paint is very visible with metalic flakes reflecting light very much in a different way throughout the scratch , so maybe i should have used a different, darker paint... so at least the metalic flakes wont be sparking throughout the scratch.

2. Maybe i did "pulled out" some touch paint out from the scratch when i was machine sanding and buffing it with PC...

Is it possible that some compound or polish residue is impacted into any rough areas of the scratch or touch-up paint and it's this "whiteness" you're seeing?

Hard to tell from the pictures.

Don't feel bad... the repair you're trying to make is an advanced procedure. I'd say most people cannot do it and do it right so that it looks 100 percent invisible when finished.

I'd also say I've seen more people try this type of filling/sanding/buffing to try to make the defect invisible only to sooner or later burn through the surrounding paint for the three reasons I listed above.

Remember,

Sanding removes paint.
Compounding removes paint.
Polishing removes paint.

In case anyone didn't click on the link I included in one of my original posts... allow me to click on it and show you the picture that is shared in the article.

Here's the article,

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips

Here's the picture....

Just how thin is the clear layer of paint on a factory paint job?

The factory clearcoat on a new or modern car measures approximately 2 mils thin.

The average post-it not is around 3 mils thin.

What does this mean?

This means the factory clearcoat on a new or modern car is thinner than a post-it note.

The next time you have a post-it note in front of you, feel a single post-it note between your fingers. Like this...

Here's the point...

You don't have a lot of film build or paint thickness to work with.