1980 Jeep J10 Honcho, Sport Side

[WHSII]

Hello all, I am WH.

I am 58, spent time as an Industrial Arts teacher, with my main areas being woodworking and drafting.

I have been building in the commercial sector for the last thirty years or so. I have spent three or four years while teaching, working in a Chrysler Plymouth dealership during the summers as a flat rate mechanic.

I learned mechanics back in the 70's hot rodding 340 Dodge Darts.

I have been able to do most any construction trade, by watching the work and asking about how it is done.

The project Jeep that I am working on went rather smoothly through disassembley, referbishing, and restoring until I came up against the body work area.
I have never seen anyone, or had anyone that I could quiz on the procedure.

I made it through priming and glazing with the help of the internet. I am struggling with the final painting, again never having seen how it is done. I am practicing and getting better, but still not getting the results without cutting and buffing.

I am still in the training stages, I am doing test panels on very simple parts that I will use on the truck.

The Jeep is rather unusual as to the way the bed is constructed, with the fiberglass rear fenders, and sheet metal fairings. I see no way that I could paint it in one spray, because of the areas that I could not get to with a paint gun, unless it were disassembled.

I never planned to "cut and buff", I am not trying to make a show car, but the only way it seems that I can make the several different sprays, one a bit dry, one with sags, etc, the same is to cut and buff.

I am using a single stage urethane, and hoped for a factory or a bit better finish, the truck had no spot filler on it, from the factory. I have blown this concept, I filled and leveled many many spots that were original stamping waves. What I thought was a dent on one fender, I fixed, I found the same exact situation on the other, it was from the original stampings.

Painting in pieces, I am ending up with different textures, very slightly different, but alas, different. I ordered a Flex kit, with pads and compound to cut and buff. The first piece I practiced on which was very simple, a flat piece of sheet metal a radius to 90 degrees, came out suburb. I was totally amazed at this finish, ten times above what I was originally hoping for. But, I broke through the edge of the paint, to the primer. 99.99% is grand, that one little corner...

Thinking of auto body and painting and cutting and buffing, I have a unique situation. These parts that I am experimenting on are 16 ga sheet metal, one finished edge shows. No rolls, no hems, just the raw edge of sheet metal that needs to be finished. I am having a bad time keeping from getting down to the primer.

The tailgate is as bad, it has lapped sheet metal that is spot welded, that has that 16 ga edge to deal with...

I am not trying to make a show truck, I however am a perfectionist by trade, (terrible habit) and once I see that I can do this, I cannot settle for anything less.

My signature has a link to my pictures of the project.

I have done everything on this project to date, other than the engine machining, and the upholstery.

I plan to hire out the stainless steel exhaust and the Line-x style bed liner. I hate to think I would have to pay someone to paint it after I have gone this far into the process.

Knowledge of technique is what I lack. I am not too far into painting to change directions a bit, and am really hoping someone will take a bit of time with my pictures to see the unusual situations that I am dealing with, to give me some incite.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
WH

[BobbyG]

WH,

59 here so I "feel" your pain...literally....

I took a look at your project photos and you're doing some splendid work!

Bodywork and painting takes practice and patience. I think the quality of the paints and urethane's to today are better than when I was painting in the 70's and 80's.

In your own words you can see your level of paining is progressing and practice makes perfect. I think because you're still learning you see differences in the outcome which is a little disappointing but in time these too will lessen and become more uniform...

Looking forward to helping any way I can.....

[Y2KSVT]

HW,
Awesome project and great documentation! I kept getting more and more excited as I scrolled through those pictures. Keep up the good work!

One thing I would say is, you shouldn't need to do a whole lot of buffing on the edges of those panels. Detailers typically tape those areas off as the paint is naturally thinner in those spots. With enough layers of clear, I'm sure you could get away with hand polishing those areas, but in the future, tape those edges and buff up to the tape and you won't notice at all that those edges weren't buffed.

[WHSII]

This is my Nemesis, what I feel is going to be the hardest part to cut and buff.

I took all metal down to bare, coated the bare metal with Captain Lee's phosphate metal treatment. (it kept rust away from the bare metal for months), then used PM Industries silver sealer, which is a moisture cure urethane sealer, which I put on with a four inch foam roller; then while it was wet, sprayed with rattle cans a light coat of sand-able primer on for bonding purposes. I sanded almost all the red primer off and then used 2K high build, then Single stage urethane.

This picture shows my situation, the tailgate has rolled top and bottom edges that are spot welded / lapped onto the embossed flat sheet, tailgate.

Tons of edges that I can break through to the primer sanding, polishing and buffing.

I did not want to fill the spot welds, because I want it to look original, I did not want to do a show car finish, the truck had zero glazing compound from the factory, it had stamping imperfections in it, that I did not realize, I found a spot on one fender, figured someone had pushed it hard and made a softball sized depression. I fixed it. Found the exact same spot on the opposite fender. I had to fix it to make it look the same. I would find another spot that I knew should not be there, alas, find the same thing on the other side. The hood was the same way. I screwed up my plan and have made it too nice for factory.

This truck being a Sport Side, or Step Side, has a lot of hard edges... The tailgate is a prime example. If you look at the first four or five pictures in on my site, you can see that it would be almost impossible to get paint coverage with the bed parts assembled.

If I paint the truck in pieces, with my marginal but increasing painting skills, I am thinking that I have to cut and buff each part before assembly.

I have spent the last several days reading all the stickies that relate, what I need is people of knowledge to let me know if the plan is proper, and guide me through the more extreme parts as I am finding on the bed.

Two of the fairings for the bed are sheet metal, with no hemmed edge, reading the stickies, it suggests taping the edge. How much should I protect? can I hand compound and polish the edges without sanding?

Thanks all for your thoughts...

WH

[DaveT435]

I have some paint and body experience. 1980 was the last car I painted. If you lay a good coat of single stage paint you really shouldn't need to buff. Is the paint your spraying a metallic paint?

[DaveT435]

Painting is definitely an art. The areas that your talking about that are going to be hard to paint...if you can remove them and spray them separately it would be best. It sounds like your talking about small areas with a lot of tight turns?? You run a pretty high risk of runs or sags in the paint trying to get in areas like that. It can be done...but you need to be careful. You said the paint is coming out differently on stuff you've already painted??

[WHSII]

Hello Dave.

Click on my Avatar and look at my link, you can see I have everything apart.

Yes I know that if I painted properly, I should not have to cut an buff, but doing multiple sprays, it seems that I have different textures.

I want it to look the same.

Thanks,
WH

[DaveT435]

WOW!! My brother law and I redid a J-10.It was the fleet side bed. I can't remember the year...76 maybe. It was a Michigan truck so lots of rust to work with.
The pics are great. You've got some serious hours in on that. If your painting in stages it's going to be tough...different temps...humidity and other factors all have an effect on how the paint turns out. I assume some panels have more orange peel than others??

[WHSII]

WOW!! My brother law and I redid a J-10.It was the fleet side bed. I can't remember the year...76 maybe. It was a Michigan truck so lots of rust to work with.
The pics are great. You've got some serious hours in on that. If your painting in stages it's going to be tough...different temps...humidity and other factors all have an effect on how the paint turns out. I assume some panels have more orange peel than others??

Correct Dave,

I do not have a paint booth, just a wood shop and tent, LOL. So far every spray, including primer has been a bit different, I got the primer down so it had no OP, now I got it to do with the paint.

I have a fan in the tent to draw out the paint fumes, and I run the AC window unit in the shop to make it positive, leave the doors between open so it is pushing air in and pulling it out.

Trash and dust does not seem to be a big problem, bugs more so...

This will be my third attempt, first, very little orange peal, but sags, second, light orange peal and dry spots, Hopefully I will get in between this time. These parts are my test panels, small and flat and easy to sand...

Cutting and buffing the cab, doors and hood will be the same as any vehicle, the bed is the problem, since the way it is cut up, you can see it all, but cannot get to it.

The only way I see I can make it all have the same texture is to cut and buff before assembly of the bed.

I have logged hours on the rebuild, up to the point of sanding for primer, filling priming and paint. I have 1500 to 1600 hrs getting it ready to paint. Roughly, I will add it all up and estimate the body work hrs and add it to my main log when finished.

A little Jeep History, The Fleet Side term in Jeep terms is Town Side. A Step Side in normal language, is, from 68 to 72 or so called Street Side. From 80 to 83 they called them Sport Sides... LOL Sorry!

Thanks,
WH

[WHSII]

HW,
Awesome project and great documentation! I kept getting more and more excited as I scrolled through those pictures. Keep up the good work!

One thing I would say is, you shouldn't need to do a whole lot of buffing on the edges of those panels. Detailers typically tape those areas off as the paint is naturally thinner in those spots. With enough layers of clear, I'm sure you could get away with hand polishing those areas, but in the future, tape those edges and buff up to the tape and you won't notice at all that those edges weren't buffed.

Hello Y2KSVT,

I chose to use Single Stage urethane, to try to keep the sheen looking factory. If I did not already have the paint, I now think I would go to Base / Clear.

Thanks for your comments!

WH