Wet sanded fully, but still some orange peel

[Kevin Brown]

A micron is 1/1000 of a millimeter.

A mil is 1/1000 of an inch.

Two sheets of printer paper equals approximately:

5.0 to 5.5 mils or 127 to 139.7 microns

Which is not an uncommon thickness reading of a new paint job. This includes primer, base coat, and clear.

[93fox]

What PTG readings would you feel comfortable with wetsanding?

I haven't looked into pricing, but I've heard the pricing of adding coats of clear is in the thousands (close to the same cost of repainting the same color) because they have to rough up the surface with 800 grit, and tape up everything. Whereas a dozen coats of CQuartz (approximately $240) is pretty economical and might give you up to 18 mil worth of clear (and a harder clear at that). Mike's tutorial shows he only removed an average of 0.5 mils after it was all done. What am I missing? Do I have microns and mils mixed up somewhere? Help me with my math. Seems like Opticoat 2.0 or Cquartz could potentially give you the extra safety margin you need for wet sanding.

Look its pretty simple. I see you didnt read troughly on my last post.... If you put ANY type of coating on your car, whether its opti coat 2.0, cquartz, Gtechniq, Aquartz... once you apply it and sand. you are going to completely remove anything you applied to the car. Meaning, i see your point, but im not sure you quite understand what coatings serve. opti coat 2.0 and cquartz and all the rest are applied for protection. Think of them as a wax on steroids that last a really long time. Its not actual clear you are adding, its a coating. So please take my advice into consideration. I still personally wouldnt sand it. Think about it, you are going to sand it, and if you are considering removing orange peel, you are going to need to take quite some clear off. So by the time you sand, you already removed clear making it thinner than what it already was. Next you need to go aggresive with a wool pad and compound. Anytime you apply a compound on the car, you are removing clear to level out the scratches to make the surface smooth. so by then you already removed a little more clear. Now you are left with really really thin clear. Hell you might not even be left with enough clear to protect the car and sooner or later, it will start getting dull, cracking, etc. So again, even if you put one coat of cquartz, or 100 coats of cquartz... As soon as you start sanding, you will remove it all and your money you spent on the cquartz will pretty much be thrown away. Cquartz and any type of coating is not actual clear that is sprayed on cars. its a whole different thing. So once again, i believe if you want no orange peel and a show car finish, you need to get that car to a body shop so they can spray some more coats of clear.

[southbeach]

yep.....wet sand it and spray some clear....and more clear....it is easy for every painter.....should be easy for you to buff after it is done....

[Joe@Superior Shine]

Listen to him! If it wasn't for Kevin Brown, I'd still be selling pencils!

[sohail99]

Awesome advise Kevin Brown and 93fox.

I agree that sanding the coating will accomplish nothing!
Coating going on a perfectly flat clear is preferable!(IMO)

[93fox]

Awesome advise Kevin Brown and 93fox.

I agree that sanding the coating will accomplish nothing!
Coating going on a perfectly flat clear is preferable!(IMO)

[MirrorFinish]

I will put my 2pence worth in.

I wet sand most cars I do. I have taken plenty of readings on several cars and I find that I take less clear off wet sanding than heavy compounding.

I ran a wet sanding course last month and one panel of the car was wet sanded by hand and the other by Power Gloss with an aggressive yellow pad.

The readings were as follows.

Ford Focus with black metallic paint.

Compounded panel, Readings before were 155um, after 146um
Wet Sanded by hand and DA, 156um, after 148um.

I don't know if you guys use this reading, but several times I have found wet sanding takes off less clear than heavy compounding. Plus there is no heat damage and the 4000 Mirka pads I use are easily polished out.

I only go as far as taking the peaks out and just final sanding past the paint left.

Adding CQuartz or C1 etc will not give any advantage, as the first few hits of paper will just take it off.

I wet sand all OEM paint jobs to get the dreaded peel out, not all of it is removed as some can be in the paint. But, it makes a hell of a difference to the reflections in the car.

[MirrorFinish]

Look its pretty simple. I see you didnt read troughly on my last post.... If you put ANY type of coating on your car, whether its opti coat 2.0, cquartz, Gtechniq, Aquartz... once you apply it and sand. you are going to completely remove anything you applied to the car. Meaning, i see your point, but im not sure you quite understand what coatings serve. opti coat 2.0 and cquartz and all the rest are applied for protection. Think of them as a wax on steroids that last a really long time. Its not actual clear you are adding, its a coating. So please take my advice into consideration. I still personally wouldnt sand it. Think about it, you are going to sand it, and if you are considering removing orange peel, you are going to need to take quite some clear off. So by the time you sand, you already removed clear making it thinner than what it already was. Next you need to go aggresive with a wool pad and compound. Anytime you apply a compound on the car, you are removing clear to level out the scratches to make the surface smooth. so by then you already removed a little more clear. Now you are left with really really thin clear. Hell you might not even be left with enough clear to protect the car and sooner or later, it will start getting dull, cracking, etc. So again, even if you put one coat of cquartz, or 100 coats of cquartz... As soon as you start sanding, you will remove it all and your money you spent on the cquartz will pretty much be thrown away. Cquartz and any type of coating is not actual clear that is sprayed on cars. its a whole different thing. So once again, i believe if you want no orange peel and a show car finish, you need to get that car to a body shop so they can spray some more coats of clear.

I disagree with what you are saying, it is perfectly safe to wet sand a car and take no more clear off than a heavy compound. I wet sand £100,000 Range Rovers all the time and get a great finish taking less paint off then compounding. Plus a body shop will not just apply clear.

[93fox]

I disagree with what you are saying, it is perfectly safe to wet sand a car and take no more clear off than a heavy compound. I wet sand £100,000 Range Rovers all the time and get a great finish taking less paint off then compounding. Plus a body shop will not just apply clear.

A body shop will just apply clear. Ive worked at a few body shops. I would know. Another thing, ok you wetsand and remove orange peel. According to you, it dosent take alot of clear when wetsanding. I agree with you. But now tell me this, whats next after wetsanding to remove all those sanding marks? Tell me what you do to achieve a perfect finish after wetsanding.

[MirrorFinish]

A body shop will just apply clear. Ive worked at a few body shops. I would know. Another thing, ok you wetsand and remove orange peel. According to you, it dosent take alot of clear when wetsanding. I agree with you. But now tell me this, whats next after wetsanding to remove all those sanding marks? Tell me what you do to achieve a perfect finish after wetsanding.

Easy and this takes off hardly any paint at all, less then 1um of clear. Don't forget once you have finished sanding with 4000 grit paper there are hardly and sanding marks in the paint, just a flat matt surface.

3M yellow pad with yellow top and polish the paint then refine down with Ultrafina on a blue pad.

Most cars I work on have about 60-100um of clear on them, you can take off up to a 1/3 off safely, so on most modern clears a removal of 20-30um is perfectly safe.