New to AG and Paint Correction

[zmcgovern45]

Ive noticed two other same cars and colors were buffed out by zmcgovern and detail miami however their pictures are from far away so you don't notice whats really going on with the paint as they have been glossed up by coatings/sealants/waxes and I'm not clear whether they had this issue or not.

Not sure whats going on, Im not sure if I should leave it alone or go for another pass. I did two additional passes and it was noticeably better however without a thickness gauge im not sure how much paint I removed during the process. I will however order one soon and see if its acceptable paint left in that area and proceed.

If anyone else can chime in please let me know.

I believe I have sent you this photo before when you had asked me about this...



... but I think it is pretty clear this vehicle does not have the pitted clear coat you show on your car.


You had mentioned your paint is very soft, this is interesting to me as Lexus metallic paints are typically not all that soft. The Ultrasonic blue F that I worked on belongs to a very close friend, so I see the car regularly, and the paint was not what I would call soft. The photo above is after Griot's Garage Fast Correcting Cream on a Microfiber cutting pad, yet the finish was very good. Particularly soft paint is left very hazy after this type of process.

As I have told you before when we were discussing your issue, I think it appears to be an issue with the paint itself, not a result of poor washing, water spots, or anything like that. You had mentioned that this is on all of the panels, correct? If it were isolated to just a few then I would say it is likely the vehicle had been repaired. It is still possible the entire car was repainted, though since your neighbor has the same car/color with the same issues that would be pretty slim chance that both were repainted and show the same issues.

I do not think compounding any more will have much of a result, so the next step would be to experiment with some sandpaper to see if you can make any progress. This is where you need to ask yourself the question "Is it worth it?"... because once you break out the sandpaper, the amount of work increases considerably and so do the risks.

[Paul A.]

Welcome k20trick and i'll be following what is already a very informative post!

[k20trick]

I believe I have sent you this photo before when you had asked me about this...



... but I think it is pretty clear this vehicle does not have the pitted clear coat you show on your car.


You had mentioned your paint is very soft, this is interesting to me as Lexus metallic paints are typically not all that soft. The Ultrasonic blue F that I worked on belongs to a very close friend, so I see the car regularly, and the paint was not what I would call soft. The photo above is after Griot's Garage Fast Correcting Cream on a Microfiber cutting pad, yet the finish was very good. Particularly soft paint is left very hazy after this type of process.

As I have told you before when we were discussing your issue, I think it appears to be an issue with the paint itself, not a result of poor washing, water spots, or anything like that. You had mentioned that this is on all of the panels, correct? If it were isolated to just a few then I would say it is likely the vehicle had been repaired. It is still possible the entire car was repainted, though since your neighbor has the same car/color with the same issues that would be pretty slim chance that both were repainted and show the same issues.

I do not think compounding any more will have much of a result, so the next step would be to experiment with some sandpaper to see if you can make any progress. This is where you need to ask yourself the question "Is it worth it?"... because once you break out the sandpaper, the amount of work increases considerably and so do the risks.

Hey Zach, how are you? That is a gorgeous USB ISF you detailed and corrected, is it Emkurths?

Yes, I am assuming this was soft paint, but you are correct I was not experiencing any hazing. The scratches came off pretty quick, maybe I went too aggressive (m105, orange, pc) so I was thinking it was on the softer side compared to other cars. I tried 205 at that point but it did not get far and wasn't removing the swirls and scratches effectively. My friends black lexus has this issue as well and his car is fairly new and well maintained.

Yes I am bummed out because im pretty sure its the paint system as well, but I'm not pro, just a guy that wants that perfect finish everyone is after. These defects actually reach into the inner edges of the body panels not sure if the matters but it seems the door pillars (soft black trim) has this issue too. Maybe its just like you said I may have been unlucky from the factory, I wish I knew.

I was thinking about sandpaper, but buffing the car already felt scary for me because it wasn't something I was comfortable with until I got my first da. Maybe once I get more practice and better at it I'll try it out, but I did order one of those thickness gauges to see where Im at with paint. I got the highline you did a review on. Hopefully I can go to town and measure some of the little areas I did to see whats left or at least get a ballpark figure.

Thanks for your response.

[k20trick]

Welcome k20trick and i'll be following what is already a very informative post!

[Mike Phillips]

I do not think compounding any more will have much of a result, so the next step would be to experiment with some sandpaper to see if you can make any progress.

This is where you need to ask yourself the question "Is it worth it?"... because once you break out the sandpaper, the amount of work increases considerably and so do the risks.

I agree.


I would just add that if the car in question is a daily driver, not a garage queen, sunny days only show car, then it's a good idea to find balance.

Balance between creating the absolute, 100% flawless show car finish and getting the paint to 95% of its potential. A person can drive themselves insane striving for perfection even for a show car let alone a daily driver.


Two articles to consider... pictures in the below article make the point especially when the topic of wet sanding comes up...


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


And this one is more directed at all the guys I've met in my life that don't polish out their cars because "someday" they're going to do a body-off-frame restoration, (that never happens), but the bigger picture would be taking what you have and making it as good as possible within reason...

"Taking your car's paint to it's maximum potential"

[zmcgovern45]

Hey Zach, how are you? That is a gorgeous USB ISF you detailed and corrected, is it Emkurths?

Yes it is.

Yes, I am assuming this was soft paint, but you are correct I was not experiencing any hazing. The scratches came off pretty quick, maybe I went too aggressive (m105, orange, pc) so I was thinking it was on the softer side compared to other cars. I tried 205 at that point but it did not get far and wasn't removing the swirls and scratches effectively.

The fact that M205 did not have much of an effect confirms my assumption that you're not dealing with very soft paint. Really soft paint can have micromarring/haze after M205 on a polishing pad, and it will remove swirls with ease in that scenario. If you weren't seeing marring with M105 then the paint does not fall into the soft category in my book.

Yes I am bummed out because im pretty sure its the paint system as well, but I'm not pro, just a guy that wants that perfect finish everyone is after. These defects actually reach into the inner edges of the body panels not sure if the matters but it seems the door pillars (soft black trim) has this issue too. Maybe its just like you said I may have been unlucky from the factory, I wish I knew.

I was thinking about sandpaper, but buffing the car already felt scary for me because it wasn't something I was comfortable with until I got my first da. Maybe once I get more practice and better at it I'll try it out, but I did order one of those thickness gauges to see where Im at with paint. I got the highline you did a review on. Hopefully I can go to town and measure some of the little areas I did to see whats left or at least get a ballpark figure.

Thanks for your response.

As Mike mentioned, you've got to find a balance... chances are the car is already better than 98% of all other cars on the road, so you've just got to deal with some of the remaining imperfections OR make the decision to push further at the risk of compromising your paint system which would require repainting to fix.

My previous car (IS250) had some poor repaint issues (fisheyes) that bugged me so much for 4 years that I eventually sold the car because it annoyed me.

[k20trick]

Yes it is.


The fact that M205 did not have much of an effect confirms my assumption that you're not dealing with very soft paint. Really soft paint can have micromarring/haze after M205 on a polishing pad, and it will remove swirls with ease in that scenario. If you weren't seeing marring with M105 then the paint does not fall into the soft category in my book.


As Mike mentioned, you've got to find a balance... chances are the car is already better than 98% of all other cars on the road, so you've just got to deal with some of the remaining imperfections OR make the decision to push further at the risk of compromising your paint system which would require repainting to fix.

My previous car (IS250) had some poor repaint issues (fisheyes) that bugged me so much for 4 years that I eventually sold the car because it annoyed me.

When I bumped up to mf pads as you recommended it did leave haze but I was able to cut through more of the defects leaving more of a desirable finish for me, I just wasnt sure if I should proceed further without more precautions and I did get the highline meter to ballpark how much paint im removing. I'm not sure how much more aggressive 105 is to the fast correcting cream you were using however...

By any chance do do you have any pictures of the hood/trunk/roof on that usb isf? It seems thats were the pitting is most noticeable.

I checked one of the videos Larry at AMMO did and it seems like this honda fit has the exact same issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z63QAlLMgSM&t=16s wish I really knew what was going on as this defect isnt in the books. What really causes it? Can it be avoided?

The is250 you had was a sweat car, but the isf you upgraded is by far on a whole different league.

[The Guz]

It looks like a paint defect from the factory. You are able to see them due to removing the paint defects that were hiding them. I had the same issue on my Pontiac Grand Prix on the factory paint on the roof. I learned to live with them. They were exposed once I compounded the paint.

If you even need some pointers feel free to contact me. I am in the area. Also Meguiar;s has their Thursday Night Garages. You can find more information on their forum.

[k20trick]

It looks like a paint defect from the factory. You are able to see them due to removing the paint defects that were hiding them. I had the same issue on my Pontiac Grand Prix on the factory paint on the roof. I learned to live with them. They were exposed once I compounded the paint.

If you even need some pointers feel free to contact me. I am in the area. Also Meguiar;s has their Thursday Night Garages. You can find more information on their forum.

Hey Guz, great to know sucks for me I guess... Your from Lawndale right? I have been trying to go to the Meguiars classes I love their products and for is of the brands I trust most because they simply work (although there are a few products I avoid, most I enjoy . I love how you can save with their professional line by buying gallons at a time.

I actually reached how to someone who can wetsand and does it on a regular basis but he wanted $3k plus for the job thats when I figured 3k is a lot of money and I could probably learn on my own. I would love to go to those meguiars classes. I tried to before but I think the registration was full. I have basically been learning on the bucket that sits outside working panel by panel lol. Takes a long time but I can be more careful working slow like this. Still need help with buffing smaller tigher areas, sharp body lines etc... Dust management and working clean.

I'll go ahead and make sure to sign up over in the forum.

[The Guz]

Hey Guz, great to know sucks for me I guess... Your from Lawndale right? I have been trying to go to the Meguiars classes I love their products and for is of the brands I trust most because they simply work (although there are a few products I avoid, most I enjoy . I love how you can save with their professional line by buying gallons at a time.

I actually reached how to someone who can wetsand and does it on a regular basis but he wanted $3k plus for the job thats when I figured 3k is a lot of money and I could probably learn on my own. I would love to go to those meguiars classes. I tried to before but I think the registration was full. I have basically been learning on the bucket that sits outside working panel by panel lol. Takes a long time but I can be more careful working slow like this. Still need help with buffing smaller tigher areas, sharp body lines etc... Dust management and working clean.

I'll go ahead and make sure to sign up over in the forum.

Yeah I am in the Lawndale area near the Torrance/Redondo Beach area.

For the thursday classes you can just show up. The saturday one's Meguiar's prefers to have folks sign up. I chose to live with them as it was my daily driver.