Dewalt DWP849X love it; hate it

[Mike Phillips]

Check this out...

Video: Tips for using a Rotary Buffer and the Flex 3401 on vertical panelsTips and techniques for using rotary buffers on vertical panels as well as the Flex 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher plus surgical buffing using small pads for thin panels.

Also shown is how to use a Spur to clean a wool pad plus how to use both the System 2000 Pad Cleaner for cleaning wool pads on a rotary buffer and the Universal Grit Guard Pad Washer for cleaning any buffing pad.

Tips for using a Rotary Buffer and the Flex 3401 on vertical panels

With a dry pad, start out with about this much product when using the 10 @ 10 Technique. After your pad breaks in then adjust how much product you use in relationship to the size of the area you're going to buff.

As a general rule, you'll use more compound for neglected surfaces and less polish for after the heavy cutting is finished.
















Also, if you don't have a Spur, get one. You can use a screwdriver or some other caveman technique but a real steel spur made for cleaning wool pads works so much better and doesn't tear up the wool pad as much.





If you don't have a pad cleaning brush for foam pads you can use a toothbrush but these pad conditioning brushes actually do work as good as they look like they work.

[jwgreen6]

That's awesome advice right there and the only thing I'd add is take the amount of product you're currently using and cut it in half. Yup. Trust me. Try it and you'll do better work with way less mess. Many people use wayyy too much product. Kudos to you for having the balls to try the rotary. Many don't.

Using less product. A concept I did not consider.

I was using enough product to circle the pad twice, (once around the perimeter; once around the center portion of the pad) thinking a dry pad won't work as effectively as a well-primed pad.

Good attitude you have there!! That's about right too.

Practicing the less is more theory can be tough to do sometimes and sometimes sling is just a part of rotary compounding/polishing. If I see that I have applied too much product to my rotary pad, I first spread the product around the work area at a low speed then walk over to my trash can and place the pad below the top edge of the inside of the can and at full speed run it for a second or two to spin the excess product out of the pad before going back to work.

Gonna get wasted regardless, might as well be right in the trash can instead of all over the wiper blades and windshield right?

Thanks Dave. My technique consisted of applying product to the pad, "wipe" the surface with the pad over the intended area, then apply power. Sometimes I still ended up with splatter.

One bonus is I discovered ONR (1 oz : 2 gal dilution) cleans up splatter very easily.

I start to resort to a similar tactic of spinning up the pad away from the car but without placing the pad over a trash can. I'll keep that in mind next time.

Check this out...

Tips and techniques for using rotary buffers on vertical panels as well as the Flex 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher plus surgical buffing using small pads for thin panels.

Also shown is how to use a Spur to clean a wool pad plus how to use both the System 2000 Pad Cleaner for cleaning wool pads on a rotary buffer and the Universal Grit Guard Pad Washer for cleaning any buffing pad.

I haven't used wool pads yet but I was thinking about getting a spur cleaning tool anyway.

With a dry pad, start out with about this much product when using the 10 @ 10 Technique. After your pad breaks in then adjust how much product you use in relationship to the size of the area you're going to buff.

I saw on other videos featuring a DA, the pad is primed with product before starting. Do you start rotary pads dry? I think that's where I'm going wrong. Back to the video vault for more review....

As a general rule, you'll use more compound for neglected surfaces and less polish for after the heavy cutting is finished.

Also, if you don't have a Spur, get one. You can use a screwdriver or some other caveman technique but a real steel spur made for cleaning wool pads works so much better and doesn't tear up the wool pad as much.



If you don't have a pad cleaning brush for foam pads you can use a toothbrush but these pad conditioning brushes actually do work as good as they look like they work.

I have a brush for cleaning foam pads that looks like an oversized toothbrush, which works well for me. I use Grit Guard PRS for cleaning the pads, too.

Thanks to all for your insight. I appreciate your expertise and counsel.

[Mike Phillips]

I saw on other videos featuring a DA, the pad is primed with product before starting. Do you start rotary pads dry? I think that's where I'm going wrong. Back to the video vault for more review....

Well you don't prime a pad used on a rotary like you do a pad for any DA machine, you could but you'll tend to sling the product outward as you bring it up to speed, at least any product not trapped between the paint and the pad.

I always use the 10 @ 10 technique or the modified version when using a rotary buffer. Some people like to use a pad condition for clean, dry aggressive foam pads or wool pads just so you're not bringing down a totally dry, aggressive pad against the paint but I don't. Instead for the initial pass I pick up my bead, spread the product out and buff for a few passes then stop and apply fresh product as the pad will have just absorbed most of what I put on the paint.

I do like to start a fresh dry wool pad out by cleaning it in a pad washer as this cleans the pad and also preps it for buffing. I always use the spur AFTER using the pad washer as this fluffs the fibers really well.


Putting lots of hours behind a rotary is the path to expertise with it and even making a few mistakes along the way so you know what not to do...

Here's a few shots of time behind a rotary...







That's sandcast aluminum worn smooth from years of rubbing my hand against it will buffing out cars...

[jwgreen6]

Well you don't prime a pad used on a rotary like you do a pad for any DA machine, you could but you'll tend to sling the product outward as you bring it up to speed, at least any product not trapped between the paint and the pad.

Putting lots of hours behind a rotary is the path to expertise with it and even making a few mistakes along the way so you know what not to do...

Thanks Mike! I now understand the proper way to use a rotary polisher. I reviewed the video you posted earlier in this thread and it makes sense now, even though I watched that same video (hard to miss the white truck I'd call "Moby ####") a couple of weeks ago. I guess it didn't sink in. All I need is more practice.

[BillyJack]

Good attitude you have there!! That's about right too.

Practicing the less is more theory can be tough to do sometimes and sometimes sling is just a part of rotary compounding/polishing. If I see that I have applied too much product to my rotary pad, I first spread the product around the work area at a low speed then walk over to my trash can and place the pad below the top edge of the inside of the can and at full speed run it for a second or two to spin the excess product out of the pad before going back to work.
Gonna get wasted regardless, might as well be right in the trash can instead of all over the wiper blades and windshield right?

Thanks Dave, I like that tip!
I've been using a rotary, albeit intermittently, for probably longer than many of the members here have been alive and never found a 100% effective way to eliminate splatter. Like others, I always seem to err in the direction of too much product. Next time I buff, I'm gonna keep an empty 5 gal wash bucket by my side and give it a try.

Bill

[richy]

Using less product. A concept I did not consider.

I was using enough product to circle the pad twice, (once around the perimeter; once around the center portion of the pad) thinking a dry pad won't work as effectively as a well-primed pad.




Thanks Dave. My technique consisted of applying product to the pad, "wipe" the surface with the pad over the intended area, then apply power. Sometimes I still ended up with splatter.

One bonus is I discovered ONR (1 oz : 2 gal dilution) cleans up splatter very easily.

I start to resort to a similar tactic of spinning up the pad away from the car but without placing the pad over a trash can. I'll keep that in mind next time.



I haven't used wool pads yet but I was thinking about getting a spur cleaning tool anyway.



I saw on other videos featuring a DA, the pad is primed with product before starting. Do you start rotary pads dry? I think that's where I'm going wrong. Back to the video vault for more review....



I have a brush for cleaning foam pads that looks like an oversized toothbrush, which works well for me. I use Grit Guard PRS for cleaning the pads, too.

Thanks to all for your insight. I appreciate your expertise and counsel.

If you're circling the pad twice, I can safely say you're using too much product! I have a video on here if you search called Richy's M105 technique. You see how little I use. Challenge yourself to use less. You'll be amazed!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[truckbutt]

I do like to start a fresh dry wool pad out by cleaning it in a pad washer as this cleans the pad and also preps it for buffing. I always use the spur AFTER using the pad washer as this fluffs the fibers really well.

Good tip! Thanks. The remaining water in the pad probably helps to prime the pad as well.

[Mike Phillips]

If you're circling the pad twice, I can safely say you're using too much product!

I would agree. And this is why he has a lot of product slinging out.


It's important to not use too much product as you will not only waste product and sling excess product all over the place but the other important reason is because you will hyperlubricate the surface and hinder the abrasives ability to do their job. In other words, using too much product creates a surface that is so slippery that instead of the abrasives biting into the surface to remove material they will simply skim over the surface.


Using too little product and you won't have enough lubrication or abrasives to work effectively, the goal is to use an ample amount of product and how much an ample amount of product is depends upon what you're buffing on and to some degree the condition of your pad and you determine how much product to use from experience.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's something I've written on the topic of ample amount from this thread, although this thread is about using a DA Polisher, the info about how much product to use or not to use still aplies...

The Definitive How-To Article for Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots Using a Porter Cable 7424XP, G110v2 or Griot's Garage Polisher


Use an ample amount of product
When we say use an ample amount of product this means don’t use too much product and don’t use to little product.


Too much product

If you use too much you can hyper-lubricate the surface and this will make it more difficult for the abrasives to abrade the surface as they’ll tend to want to glide or slip over the surface instead of bite into the surface.


To little product
If you use too little product there won’t be enough lubrication to enable the buffing pad to rotate and thus engage the abrasives against the surface so they can bite into and remove small particles of paint.

Learning how much product to use varies with manufactures products as there’s a lot of variables involved. The best teacher is experience coupled with any hands-on training you can find. Watching a video or asking questions on a detailing discussion forum like the Autogeek Online Detailing Forum is a great resource for this kind of information.

Also, when you’re first starting out with a dry pad, (doesn’t matter so much if it’s new or used as long as it’s clean), the pad will tend to absorb some of the initial product applied to it or picked up off the surface. As you continue to buff and the pad becomes more wet or saturated with product a couple of things will take place:

You’ll find you’ll need less product to work a section. As the pad becomes wet with product, the combination of liquid and foam will tend to absorb and dissipate the power provided by the motor. This will show up as a reduction in the ability of the tool to keep the pad rotating under pressure. Then if you apply more pressure the free floating spindle assembly will do it's job and the pad will stop rotating. The fix for this is to clean your pad often, which we will address below and/or switch to a fresh, clean, dry pad and continue switching to clean dry pads as you work around the car and your products become wet with product.

Of course the ability to swap out pads means having a collection of pads in your arsenal to start with depending upon your budget and how much you value your time. Simply put, dry pads rotate against the paint better than wet pads, so it’s faster to buff out an entire car by swapping out wet pads for dry pads versus trying to buff the entire car out with only a few pads.

New generation DA Polishers like the PC 7424XP and the Meguiar’s G110 offer more power than their predecessors and this is their strong point because it’s this extra power that will keep your pads rotating better even after they become wet with product. This one feature alone makes them worth choosing over earlier dual action polishers and/or upgrading.


Here's some more on the topic of ample amount...

How much product do I use with my DA Polisher?


Use an "ample" amount of product
When I say use an ample amount of product this means don’t use too much product and don’t use to little product.

From The Free Dictionary.com

am·ple
adjective

1. Of large or great size, amount, extent, or capacity: an ample living room.

2.
a. Large in degree, kind, or quantity: an ample reward.
b. More than enough: ample evidence.

3. Fully sufficient to meet a need or purpose: had ample food for the party.

Out of the above definitions, I'm using the 3rd definition.

Using too much product
If you use too much you can hyper-lubricate the surface and this will make it more difficult for the abrasives to abrade the surface as they’ll tend to want to glide or slip over the surface instead of bite into the surface.

Using too little product
If you use too little product there won’t be enough lubrication to enable the buffing pad to rotate and thus engage the abrasives against the surface so they can bite into and remove small particles of paint.

You want an AMPLE amount of product when first starting out because you pad is dry and some of the product is going to seep into the pad leaving less on the surface to LUBRICATE and ABRADE the paint.


Cut down on the amount of product AFTER pad is broken-in...
After your pad is broken in with product, clean your pad after each section pass and when you apply fresh product you can cut down on the amount of product you actually apply to the face of your pad.

[jwgreen6]

Thanks to all for your insight and expertise in how to properly use a rotary polisher. I feel that I now know just enough to be dangerous :-0

Time for more practice to try out what I've learned. Thanks again!