help removing water spots

[cadd]

Good evening everyone ! I need a little advice from the forum gods tonite. Had a customer with an 2007 F250, that had water spots on it. Told him, sure shouldnt be a problem buffing them out. Washed , and clayed truck, then started buffing with LC white pad and meg 205. Did 6 sec. passes. No luck, nothing. Went to a LC orange pad, same thing..no luck. Paint looked shinier, but spots still there. Bumped it up to LC orange pad and Megs UC...again couldnt get the spots to budge. They looked a little lighter, but were still very obvious. Any idea could be the problem. He did say he lived next to some type of chemical plant..so maybe it some kind of fall out from the chemical plant when it rains. Thanks for any help guys/gals.

[DetailedByPrecision]

i guess you need to go more aggressive. try a orange pad with m105 now at a min of 4 speed with the PC.

[jimmyjam]

I had the same problem one time, but I started with M105/Orange pad. So I pulled out the ruff stuff, I used Megs Diamond Cut with a LC orange pad. Followed with a m105,m205, and Menzerna 85rd.

[Flash Gordon]

Good evening everyone ! I need a little advice from the forum gods tonite. Had a customer with an 2007 F250, that had water spots on it. Told him, sure shouldn't be a problem buffing them out. Washed , and clayed truck, then started buffing with LC white pad and meg 205. Did 6 sec. passes. No luck, nothing. Went to a LC orange pad, same thing..no luck. Paint looked shinier, but spots still there. Bumped it up to LC orange pad and Megs UC...again couldnt get the spots to budge. They looked a little lighter, but were still very obvious. Any idea could be the problem. He did say he lived next to some type of chemical plant..so maybe it some kind of fall out from the chemical plant when it rains. Thanks for any help guys/gals.

Lesson #1. Never say something won't be a problem

[Mazda.Mark]

Per Mike:

Just makes the point that anything strong enough, or corrosive enough to etch paint is strong enough to eat past a micron, or sub-micron thin layer of wax or paint sealant.




Vinegar is often times recommended and used because it can break the bond between minerals and paint allowing the minerals to be wiped off. If the spots are actual etchings "in" the paint, not "on" the paint, then the only way to remove them is to level the surface and this is done by abrading the paint with some type of compound or abrasive polish.


From this article,

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring


Excerpt...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

Water Spots - Type I, Type II, Type III
Water Spots are more complex than most people assume because there are different types of water spots. Some water spots are merely mineral deposits on the surface left behind after water with minerals has evaporated off the surface. These deposits can often be washed off the paint using a quality car wash soap. Sometimes these deposits can also leave an imprint in the paint in the perimeter of the spot and in these cases the imprint must be removed using a compound or paint cleaner as it's a defect in the paint, not simply a deposit on the paint.

Some sources of water, be it rain with air-borne pollution mixed-in, or sprinkler water from a city water supply or well water, can have corrosive enough elements in it that it will actually eat into or etch the paint leaving a depression or crater in the paint where the water dwelled or dried. This is a Type II water spot and it can only be removed by leveling the surrounding paint by hand or machine with some type of abrasive compound or paint cleaner.

Type III Water Spots are primarily a stain in the paint which looks like fading where water pooled and then dwelled for some measure of time. This primarily happens to single stage paints which tend to be more porous and thus will absorb water into itself. If Type III Water Spots are limited to only the upper surface of the paint then they can be removed by abrading the paint by hand or machine with a compound or polish.

Before attempting to remove water spots it is important to first diagnose which type of water spot is affecting your car's paint.

Type I Water Spots
Type I Water Spots are primarily a mineral or dirt deposit laying on the surface of paint. Type I Water Spots can be the results of minerals suspended in city water or well water that are left behind after the water evaporates off the finish. This can happen by washing a car but not drying the water off the paint or if a sprinkler goes off next to the car covering the car with water drop that are not dried off the paint. Type I Water Spots can also be dirt or pollution particles left behind after water from rain or inclement weather evaporates of the finish. Type I Water Spots can also be Type II Water Spots in that the water can leave both a deposit on the surface and an etching in the finish.


Type II Water Spots
Type II Water Spots are actual etchings or craters in the paint because something corrosive in a water source has landed on the paint and was not removed before a portion of the paint was eaten or dissolved by the corrosive substance.

Type III Water Spots
Type III Water Spots are spots that look faded or dull and are found primarily found on single stage paints after a water source lands on and then pools on the paint and is usually left to dwell on the surface for some measure of time before it evaporates or is wiped-off the surface.

[tuscarora dave]

Lesson #1. Never say something won't be a problem

I had to learn this lesson the hard way too.
Mineral deposits are tough to remove from paint using just a PC and a compound. There is some good advice listed above. The best product I have found for removing them is Poorboy's Pro Polish. The chemicals in PB PP have the ability to break down the mineral deposits however I've had some tough cases where a vinegar or Bug Squash soaking was necessary before using PP.

I have done side by side testing using M-105 on one half of a hood with bad mineral deposits and PP on the other half and PP works faster at removing them. This test was performed using a rotary polisher though.

It sounds to me though that you are dealing with etchings and as the advice above states you would have to level the paint (if possible) to get rid of them.

The important thing that comes into my mind as I type this is, what is your customer going to do differently to avoid this situation in the future? There is only so much clear on a vehicle that can be removed to fix this situation and if your customer isn't going to be diligent in preventing future etching, you do not want to be the one who will cut through the layer of clear in attempting to fix this problem a second time.

If I were you I would ask him/her the above question and let them know that if the vehicle is going to be sitting beside a chemical plant where paint etching is an ongoing problem that they are going to have to apply a fresh coat of protection "at least" Monthly.

If they are not willing to do this and you are going to clean this mess up for them a second time, make sure your liability insurance is paid up and have them sign a release of liability waiver.

These are just my thoughts and experiences on this subject, Take it as you will. TD