Opti-coat topped with BlackFire?

**jarred767** · 06-30-2014, 09:32 AM

Hey everyone, long time lurker first time poster! This site has been great and has a ton of info, but I finally found something not already discussed specifically (or I couldn't find it) so I figured I'd ask.

I've got a customer who is debating between OptiCoat and BlackFire BlackICE or BFWD. He's also wondering if he can combine the two to get the benefits of both (protection of Opti-Coat and the look/feel of BlackFire). I know Opti-coat isn't usually recommended to be topped as waxes won't bond properly, so was doubtful that the BlackICE could be put directly over the OC, but would a sealant like BFWD bond better over OC? And then maybe even put the BlackICE over BFWD? (He's got a black Porsche BTW).

If we skipped OC all-together, would BFWD and then BlackICE be the best order, right? And what type of typical length of protection would he be looking at for this combo.

And yes, there will be a full wash, clay, correct, polish, before any of the above. Thanks!

**CRyan** · 06-30-2014, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by jarred767

Hey everyone, long time lurker first time poster! This site has been great and has a ton of info, but I finally found something not already discussed specifically (or I couldn't find it) so I figured I'd ask.

I've got a customer who is debating between OptiCoat and BlackFire BlackICE or BFWD. He's also wondering if he can combine the two to get the benefits of both (protection of Opti-Coat and the look/feel of BlackFire). I know Opti-coat isn't usually recommended to be topped as waxes won't bond properly, so was doubtful that the BlackICE could be put directly over the OC, but would a sealant like BFWD bond better over OC? And then maybe even put the BlackICE over BFWD? (He's got a black Porsche BTW).

If we skipped OC all-together, would BFWD and then BlackICE be the best order, right? And what type of typical length of protection would he be looking at for this combo.

And yes, there will be a full wash, clay, correct, polish, before any of the above. Thanks!

This thread is my personal experience...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...lored-car.html

I did not find any benefit except for additional static charge and thus more dust accumulation.

**silverfox** · 06-30-2014, 09:55 AM

If you are going to top coatings...stay within the family or else you will most likely be disappointed, especially if this is NOT your car.

I'd also not do a coating unless you have done several already, and are aware of the effects that humidity and temperature can have during application.

If you want a sure fire thing that is totally mistake proof....BF all the way...

**FUNX650** · 06-30-2014, 02:30 PM

It's been highly recommended to not put any other products ("toppers") on top of Optimum's Coatings.
Regardless...People still do!

So...With that thought in mind:
If there was going to be any "topping-product" on Opti-Coatings, that product should...IMHO...definitely be:
Optimum Car Wax!

It contains two patented components...
-One for UVA and UVB protection...(patent# 6,685,765)
-One for its polymer/Carnauba system [that provides up to 5 months of protection]...(patent# 6,669,763)

Bob

**jarred767** · 07-01-2014, 08:31 AM

Thanks for the tips and advice guys. I have had plenty of experience with both products, so no issues there, but just had never thought about trying to combine them before. We decided to just go with the Opti-Coat and get the best protection after getting the paint in pristine shape. Maybe I'll recommend the Optimum Car Wax for him in the future though to help boost protection if he wants it.

I appreciate the help and responses!

**HUMP DIESEL** · 07-01-2014, 09:06 AM

I agree with the others, it to me defeats the purpose of doing a coating. Now with that said, if he would not mind another product, GTechniq C1 topped with ExoV2 gives the slick feeling and I can vouch for the fact that water cannot hold on.

I also agree that if indeed the customer feels the need to top OC, then I would stick to Optimum products.

HUMP

**Crispy** · 07-01-2014, 03:23 PM

I put the Opti-Coat 2.0 on top of all my painted surfaces. I'm looking for protection foremost. I agree that waxes should not be done over Opti-Coat (they won't stick) so how to get that super shine and smoother finish? Optinum Platinum is what I use. It bonds electrostatically and bonds instantly like a magnet does to steel. It doesn't go on dry and it lasts a very long time (recommend 5% solution every month or so). Re-application takes 15-20 minutes and is best done in the rain.I also use Optimum Detailer for quick touch ups-but not sure if it is attaching any better than waxes would.

**FUNX650** · 07-01-2014, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Crispy

I put the Opti-Coat 2.0 on top of all my painted surfaces.
I'm looking for protection foremost.

I agree that waxes should not be done over Opti-Coat
(they won't stick)<<<Why not? Where would they go?

so how to get that super shine and smoother finish?
Optinum Platinum is what I use.

It bonds electrostatically and bonds instantly like a magnet does to steel.

It doesn't go on dry and it lasts a very long time (recommend 5% solution every month or so).
Re-application takes 15-20 minutes and is best done in the rain.

I also use Optimum Detailer for quick touch ups-but not sure if it is attaching any better than waxes would.

•You did mean to say Permanon Platinum (PP), didn't you?
-Sounds very potent when coupled with water.
But, strangely: Why does it have to be applied monthly?
-The "attachment" isn't that strong, or something?
Perhaps something akin to Waxes?

•Electrostatic Bonding...
-Cool sounding (to me) substitute/terminology passed down from a marketing boiler-room?

-These (bonding) forces are "electrostatic in nature" only because they involve the attraction of unlike charges.
-Can this also be called Ionic Bonding?
-What are the individual charges (+/-) of Opti-Coatings and Permanon Platinum?
-And which of these two material's atoms has the valence shell donor electron?
-Are there any Covalent Bonding events taking place in these electrostatic bonding scenarios?

•OK...If there really can be Electrostatic/Ionic Bonding between OC (a Coating)...and PP (a Sealant)...
-Well then:
Why not other types/brands of potential "topping-LSPs" for OC?
_______________________________________________

Thanks in advance for any input on the above concerns/questions of mine, that you are willing to provide.

Bob

**Crispy** · 07-01-2014, 07:24 PM

Yes Permanon Platnium. I. Do it every month in the Summer cause ot only takes a few minutes while washing the car. Last winter I left it for 90 days and brushless car wash almost every day and still was looking good.

**cire** · 07-02-2014, 09:20 AM

If you are going with Opti-coat, and it sounds like you are, I and many others I'm sure would highly recommend adding Car Pro Reload on top. In case you are not familiar with it, it has very nice beading, as lengthy of protection as BFWD from my experience in La., and has a nice smooth texture. BFWD has a very slick texture which I love but the smooth feeling of Reload is nice. Reload seems to be what's recommended the most as a topping on CQaurtz, opti-coat many times, and others as well because of it's great properties. Of course, you can also use it by itself. I just topped Reload over Pinnacle Black Label after cleaning the surface off and I couldn't be happier with the look, feel, and protection. Black Label had been on a few months but the beading had diminished so I cleaned the surface & used Reload!