How to finish polish (jewel) with rotary?

**Harry Da Hamster** · 10-08-2013, 12:33 PM

After a brief stint with the Rupes polisher, i will be going back to the Flex 3401. But i've also been contemplating the idea of getting a rotary also for the main purpose of finish polishing or jeweling, and though i don't work on many neglected vehicles, to a lesser degree id be using it for the purpose of heavy correction. I realize the only way to really jewel paint is by using very low RPM and an ultra fine polish like SF4500 (85RD) which i have. But i also read a comment by Mike Phillips where he said "Trying to create a 100% swirl free finish on a clear coated black vehicle using ONLY a direct-drive rotary buffer is hard to do". So based on Mikes quote, would i be wrecking my almost perfect DA polisher finish by running a rotary on the paint after? Or is it really possible to jewel with a rotary?

**statusdetailing** · 10-08-2013, 12:49 PM

It's possible with a very fine pad and polish. The question is, will there be any discernible difference after doing it? Might depend on the paint. Modern polishes finish so well. Is there a point in a 3rd or even 4th step of polishing? Maybe on a museum quality paint job. . .that won't be driven.

Mike Phillips · 10-08-2013, 01:03 PM

Just to add...

The thing about using only a rotary buffer on a car is that you can leave what looks like a flawless, hologram free finish in your eyes at that moment.

If there are holograms, you might not be able to see them unless you chemically strip the car and then view the car in bright overhead sun.

Stripping the paint takes time
Stripping the paint risks marring it in the process.
You don't always have a hot, sunny summer day at noon to inspect.
On a light colored car even if their are holograms they can still be hard to see.

So here's the question...

If you don't really do a great job of completely stripping off any oils, fillers other masking ingredients and then inspect in full sun or very bright light... how will you actually know 100% that you've left a 100% hologram-free finish?

The answer is you won't.

The above all said, if there are holograms, as long as you don't see them and as long as you maintain the paint with a wax, sealant or coating, then the point is moot.

Here's what I know and what I've also see a lot of seasoned professional agree with and that's in most cases, the holograms won't show up till months have gone by and the car in question has been washed over and over again.

I do some rotary buffer only buff-outs... I have nothing against them for the right car and the right owner.

Plus, with products like SF 4500, Sonax Nano Polish and soft foam pads and slow turning rotary buffers, it's more possible now to leave a hologram FREE finish than ever before.

Go for it!

**RLucky82** · 11-04-2013, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

Just to add...

... it's more possible now to leave a hologram finish than ever before.

Go for it!

Mike, you say that like its a good thing!?!

I'm assuming you meant "hologram *free* finish" ...

Mike Phillips · 05-16-2016, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by RLucky82

Mike, you say that like its a good thing!?!

I'm assuming you meant "hologram *free* finish" ...

I just found your reply and you're correct, I meant to say,

Hologram-Free

Not leave a hologram finish.

Anyone can leave a hologram finish. I fixed the typo.

**Rsurfer** · 05-16-2016, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

I just found your reply and you're correct, I meant to say,

Hologram-Free

Not leave a hologram finish.

Anyone can leave a hologram finish. I fixed the typo.

Better late than never.

**Joe@NextLevelDetail** · 05-16-2016, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

Just to add...

The thing about using only a rotary buffer on a car is that you can leave what looks like a flawless, hologram free finish in your eyes at that moment.

If there are holograms, you might not be able to see them unless you chemically strip the car and then view the car in bright overhead sun.

Stripping the paint takes time
Stripping the paint risks marring it in the process.
You don't always have a hot, sunny summer day at noon to inspect.
On a light colored car even if their are holograms they can still be hard to see.

So here's the question...

If you don't really do a great job of completely stripping off any oils, fillers other masking ingredients and then inspect in full sun or very bright light... how will you actually know 100% that you've left a 100% hologram-free finish?

The answer is you won't.

The above all said, if there are holograms, as long as you don't see them and as long as you maintain the paint with a wax, sealant or coating, then the point is moot.

Here's what I know and what I've also see a lot of seasoned professional agree with and that's in most cases, the holograms won't show up till months have gone by and the car in question has been washed over and over again.

I do some rotary buffer only buff-outs... I have nothing against them for the right car and the right owner.

Plus, with products like SF 4500, Sonax Nano Polish and soft foam pads and slow turning rotary buffers, it's more possible now to leave a hologram FREE finish than ever before.

Go for it!

You have a video on this very subject Mike!

https://youtu.be/V4PQfiXJLIc

To the OP theres a video of Mike showing you how to jewel with the

Flex pe-14
Lake Country Blue Pad
Menzerna SF4500 (now Menzerna 3800)

Mike just about had a Video or a article on just about anything and everything.

And whats more impressive is he remembers the majority of the Articles he has written!

The pe14 is an amazing machine OP, i say go for it.

"Nobody has ever been sorry they bought the best"

Mike Phillips · 10-08-2013, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by statusdetailing

The question is, will there be any discernible difference after doing it? Might depend on the paint.

Don't forget to factor in the LSP. a quality coat of wax, paint sealant or a coating has the effect of creating a very uniform appearance over entire panels. That's one of the strong benefits to applying an LSP instead of stopping after the last machine polishing step as advocated by some as the ultimate or best process. (I disagree).

Originally Posted by statusdetailing

Modern polishes finish so well. Is there a point in a 3rd or even 4th step of polishing?

And this is a benefit to all of us...

Like Joe Fernandez once said, (paraphrase)

It used to be you actually had to have some talent and experience to get good results...

**goodinblack** · 10-08-2013, 02:06 PM

Hello mike.....

What's the word on the new polish reflect car pro?

How does that stack up against s4500?

Mike Phillips · 10-08-2013, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by goodinblack

Hello mike.....

What's the word on the new polish reflect car pro?

How does that stack up against s4500?

Haven't used it yet.

Been kind of busy lately with detailing classes, detailing cars, wetsanding cars and behind the scenes I'm coordinating 4 different cars that will be at the My Classic Car TV studio next week for the 2014 season.

It's easy to coordinate cars in my hometown... gets a little trickier when it's not your backyard...

I've heard and read good things about it so far...