Rotary guys, what RPM do you use when removing heavy swirls?

[DantheMan]

Depends on what I'm working on/with, but generally my cutting stage will be 1500 plus or minus a couple hundred.

[ANeat]

With the flex "lightweight" should I add a couple hundred RPM's because it's not as "powerful"? I use the recommended size pads(no bigger than 6"), so should it still spin what it says on the speed dial?

Thats getting into a subject Ive been meaning to get into.

With a rotary youre basicly using a rotary "cutter" so to speak and the majority of the "cutting" is being done on the outside diameter of the pad.

The surface speed on the outside diameter is a major factor in determining how "fast" its going to cut assuming the pressure and compound are the same.

Lets start with a big old 8" pad at say 1500 rpm, The outer part of the pad is moving along at almost 38K inches per minute (38000)

Say you drop down to a 7" pad at 1500 , your surface speed will drop down to 33K

To get the surface speed of the 8" pad you would need a little over 1700 rpm


Now pick up the flex with a 6" pad, 1500 rpm will get you a surface speed of 28K; to get 38k (like an 8" pad) you would need a little over 2k rpm.



What Im saying is try to keep "surface speed" in the back of your mind if youre using a rotary. You can certainly put on a smaller diameter pad and dial up the speed a bit.


Also putting on a smaller pad and keeping the RPM within reason can make the rotary buffer a little more "forgiving"

[PAR Detailing]

Thats getting into a subject Ive been meaning to get into.

With a rotary youre basicly using a rotary "cutter" so to speak and the majority of the "cutting" is being done on the outside diameter of the pad.

The surface speed on the outside diameter is a major factor in determining how "fast" its going to cut assuming the pressure and compound are the same.

Lets start with a big old 8" pad at say 1500 rpm, The outer part of the pad is moving along at almost 38K inches per minute (38000)

Say you drop down to a 7" pad at 1500 , your surface speed will drop down to 33K

To get the surface speed of the 8" pad you would need a little over 1700 rpm


Now pick up the flex with a 6" pad, 1500 rpm will get you a surface speed of 28K; to get 38k (like an 8" pad) you would need a little over 2k rpm.



What Im saying is try to keep "surface speed" in the back of your mind if youre using a rotary. You can certainly put on a smaller diameter pad and dial up the speed a bit.


Also putting on a smaller pad and keeping the RPM within reason can make the rotary buffer a little more "forgiving"

I am glad you brought that up! I didnt know the facts and figures you had that was really interresting. But as far as being forgiving that is very true, smaller pads are much easier to work with and I find it easier to play with the speed. I personally dont like going above 6.5" pad but mostly use 5.5" with my rotary.

I gave a rotary to my friend who never used one before and he was able to work it just fine. Now he was no rotary master but he didnt burn the pain and he didnt mess anything up, AND he actually got some descent correction. Im saying all that to re-emphasize what you said about smaller pads being much more forgiving and easier to work with.

[richy]

I didn't bother to read all the other responses (and don't care to), so maybe there's one similar to what I'm going to tell you. "There are no absolutes in detailing". Quote me on that. I say it often. Like all approaches to detailing, you always start with a least aggressive approach and amp it up from there. Same applies to using your rotary. Unless the scratch or imperfection is a b-i-t-c-h to get out, use it slowly. The first amp up should be more pressure. Push down harder. Push down even harder if that doesn't work. That is increasing the friction yet is still safer than high speed. If you are using the strongest tools at your disposal (which you bloody well should be if you're at this stage) which includes an aggressive wool pad and menz PG or some other "rocks in a bottle" compound, then you need to max out on pressure first. IF, and only if, that doesn't work for you, crank up the speed. Speed up your passes. You are going to generate a boat load of friction, so be careful. High pressure + high speed= max correction. Don't just jump to that stage. There is most likely a stage at less than the max that will do the job for you.

[ANeat]

I agree Richy, thats where the oh so valuable "experience" comes into play.

Thats one thing that probably saved me from making too many mistakes, was reading about everyone else's experience and what "NOT" to do

[C. Charles Hahn]

....then you need to max out on pressure first. IF, and only if, that doesn't work for you, crank up the speed. Speed up your passes. You are going to generate a boat load of friction, so be careful. High pressure + high speed= max correction. Don't just jump to that stage. There is most likely a stage at less than the max that will do the job for you.

While what you're saying is definitely a perfectly valid approach, I would say that lower pressure and higher speed are also effective without being exceedingly unsafe. Friction generated by speed vs. friction created by pressure will likely equal out in terms of cut and also in terms of byproduct heat.

The main thing to take into account is if you can control the polisher well when feathering it over the surface while it is spinning at a higher RPM (can be a more difficult thing to master than leaning on the machine while operating at low RPMs -- not to mention requiring more upper body strength).

[BobbyG]

1500?

This sort of the recommended average but depending on the hardness of the paint and the aggressiveness of the pad you might bump this up or down.

I usually run between 1200 and 1800 on my Makita 9227 and I'm using 6 - 6 1/2 inch pads.

[A4 1.8tqm]

While what you're saying is definitely a perfectly valid approach, I would say that lower pressure and higher speed are also effective without being exceedingly unsafe. Friction generated by speed vs. friction created by pressure will likely equal out in terms of cut and also in terms of byproduct heat.

I don't have much rotary experience, but I don't think that's right at all... In my thinking, Higher pressure would have increased potential to cut DEEP and fast while high speed would likely be lighter cutting but very fast. Maybe heat could be equaled out, but in theory, each would give different cutting characteristics. In theory... I don't know.

[Mike Phillips]

"There are no absolutes in detailing". Quote me on that.

I agree. In fact, that's how the Power Point Presentation for the Meguiar's Advanced Class ends as written by my good friend Mike Pennington.

I say it often. Like all approaches to detailing, you always start with a least aggressive approach and amp it up from there.

I agree with this too... Meguiar's has been teaching this since their inception in 1901

The first amp up should be more pressure. Push down harder. Push down even harder if that doesn't work. That is increasing the friction yet is still safer than high speed.

I would say the first amp-up would be a second pass using fresh product after wiping off the spent residue and inspecting the paint to see where you're at.

A second pass is in keeping with using the least aggressive method philosophy, it's cooler to the paint than increasing pressure and safer in light of how thin factory clear coat paints are.

Heat is not good for clear coat paints and more pressure will increase friction and the result from increased friction will be heat.

The problem isn't so much the increased pressure it's the fact that factory clear coat paints are thin. There's little room for error.

So anyone reading this, if you're new to the rotary buffer, be very careful when trying to remove deeper defects, if the car is a daily driver it might be safer to learn to live with the deeper defects after you remove the shallow defects than to risk burning through the clear.

All the UV protection for the basecoat is in the clear coat, so the more clear you remove the less UV protection you have to protect the basecoat over the lifetime of the vehicle.

Also, another option for removing deeper defects, if you're dead set on removing them, is to sand them out and then remove your sanding marks. Sanding, especially wetsanding or dampsanding is cool, versus hot like you get from using a rotary buffer.

I cover this here,

RIDS and Feathersanding

And talk about the benefit of keeping the surface cool when removing deeper defects versus heating the paint up here,

Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips



Whatever it is you're working on, the first thing you do is

• Evaluate the customer - Make sure you can please them and that you even want to work for them.
• Evaluate the finish, diagnose what's wrong
• Do a Test Spot, make sure you can fix one small area before tackling the entire car and taking the job
• Determine the goal, is this a daily driver or a show car? Let that criteria help you determine if you're going to go after each and every defect or just remove the shallow defects and move on.

[joshman1204]

I use menz PG at 1800 with my dewalt on a orange pad for most of my heavy correction.