Looking at Dewalt DW849

[zinc02gt]

I personally learned on a PC7424 first. I can see people learning on rotary buffers, but from my experience, or lack thereof, I would suggest getting a DA and moving on to a rotary after yo uhave some experience under your belt. I've had my 7424 since around March of '09, done about 15 or more cars, and just now purchased a rotary.

Just my $0.02

[A4 1.8tqm]

After looking at this video I'm going to go deep, and get the flex.

There is nothing wrong with learning on a rotary, numerous people have. With any power tool you just need to be patient and use common sense and you will be fine. Maybe a little practice on a pos to get the feel for the rotary and you will be fine. A rotary does everything across the board so there will be no need to bring a few different tools to do a job.

True... And I'm already anxious to start learning on a rotary after, only 4 cars with my Flex 3401 (but don't think I'll never be without it).

i was under the idea that he was talking about the DW443, which is Dewalts random orbital, which doesnt compare to a PC

Ahhh

[detaildave]

I would highly suggest you go to a junkyard or a bodyshop & buy $10.00 / $20.00 or even free from a bodyshop that has scrap parts ie: hoods, door panels, trunk lids, etc. Wal-Mart buy a cheap table, set the Practice metal on the table and let the Journey of learning begin. A pc is a great tool & has many wonderful use's, however for deep paint correction the Dewalt & other rotarys w/ a wool pad is the difference that you will see & begin to learn progress on your objective of said task. Practice, Practice Practice!!! I wish you the best & good luck in your new business.

[Pepperjam]

I would highly suggest you go to a junkyard or a bodyshop & buy $10.00 / $20.00 or even free from a bodyshop that has scrap parts ie: hoods, door panels, trunk lids, etc. Wal-Mart buy a cheap table, set the Practice metal on the table and let the Journey of learning begin. A pc is a great tool & has many wonderful use's, however for deep paint correction the Dewalt & other rotarys w/ a wool pad is the difference that you will see & begin to learn progress on your objective of said task. Practice, Practice Practice!!! I wish you the best & good luck in your new business.

Thats a good idea! That's how I learned to weld. (granted my welds still look like bird poop)

I might just even do that with the DA but I will do that with the rotary whenever I get that too.

[kbohip]

I found a used Dewalt 849 off Craigslist a few weeks back for $75. I "learned" how to use it on my wife's old '91 Maxima. It needs a new paint job anyway so wth. Well after the rotary, it no longer needs a new paint job! Sure all the deep scratches and rock chips are still there (and there are plenty) but the paint is now incredibly glossy. Better than it's ever been. Certainly way better results than I was ever able to achieve with my Cyclo.

Roof before:


Roof after:


To get to this level I started with some cheap "extreme cut" polish I got from of Top of the Line a few years back. It's designed to take out 600 grit scratches. I paired that up with a wool pad as yellow foam pads barely made a dent in it. I followed that up with some old 3M Perfect It 2 I had and then on to some light cut polish. A lot of work and time. The hood was much worse than the roof and required a ton of passes but in the end it was worth it. The clearcoat was a total mess. It looked like it was cracking close up. My only regret is not getting a rotary sooner. It obviously requires more care over a DA, but the results speak for themselves.

[Mike Phillips]

but the results speak for themselves.

Anything can look good in a garage. What most Pros do is get the "Sun Shot". In fact I even wrote a little article on how to capture swirls shots in the sun on MOL but I'll recreate for AG today.

If you strip that finished panel, for example, just wash with a strong solution of Dawn, then pull it out into the sun do you see any rotary buffer swirls?

It's pretty easy to get nice shot like that in a garage after using a rotary buffer but if you ONLY finished with a rotary buffer and a wool pad then there's likely rotary buffer swirls, also called holograms and buffer trails.

That's where the DA Polisher comes in to play, after knocking out the correction work with the rotary buffer, you then change the action of the tool, that is switch to a DA Polisher and re-polish the paint and the oscillation action will remove the fine swirls left by the wool pad cutting into the paint in a rotating direction.

Garage shots are nice but they don't really show the true results. An honest picture taken in full, overhead direct sun will usually reveal the holograms.

For example, chances are good these rotary buffer swirls wouldn't show up in a garage, but they sure do in direct, bright sunlight.





Here's two popular threads on the topic of getting a swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer that have been posted since I came to work for Autogeek. These two threads document two of our forum members trying to get a swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer but it wasn't till they changed the action of the tool, that is one person FINISHED-OUT using a DA Polisher and the other person FINISHED-OUT using a Flex 3401, and it wasn't until then that a swirl free finish was achieved.

What am I doing wrong - Holograms after using the rotary buffer

and

4 part process still has swirls?

It's possible to create a 100% swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer but it requires skill and experience, using the right pads and products and one thing no one can control and that is the paint you're working on has to be at a minimum somewhat polishable. Some paints are easy to work on and some paints just don't polish very well at all and you really need this factor working in your favor if you want to finish out with only a rotary buffer.

I started out learning and using only a rotary buffer, I've spent thousands of hours behind my trusty, dusty Makita so I'm talking from first hand experience. The rotary buffer is a great tool but it's just one type of tool. You would never see a Pro Mechanic with just one tool in his Roll-Around-Tool chest, rather it would be filled with a large selection of tools so he could match the right tool for the job.

With polishing paint the same analogy holds true, sometimes the rotary buffer is the best tool for the job and sometimes a DA Polisher is the best tool for the job, sometimes your hand is the best tool for the job.

If you have a chance to get a quality, brand name rotary buffer at a great price then get it but don't limit yourself to just one tool if you plan on buffing out cars as a hobby, a passion or a business.

[BuckeyeR/T]

i was under the idea that he was talking about the DW443, which is Dewalts random orbital, which doesnt compare to a PC

That might be true for the current PC but not the 1st generation.

[Pepperjam]

Just thought I'd add that I have my flex now and its awesome been doing a lot of correction work that I was never able to get out by hand. Only problem I'm having now is that I can't get any spider webs out of my paint, but then I only got it a week ago.

[kbohip]

Anything can look good in a garage. What most Pros do is get the "Sun Shot". In fact I even wrote a little article on how to capture swirls shots in the sun on MOL but I'll recreate for AG today.

If you strip that finished panel, for example, just wash with a strong solution of Dawn, then pull it out into the sun do you see any rotary buffer swirls?

It's pretty easy to get nice shot like that in a garage after using a rotary buffer but if you ONLY finished with a rotary buffer and a wool pad then there's likely rotary buffer swirls, also called holograms and buffer trails.

That's where the DA Polisher comes in to play, after knocking out the correction work with the rotary buffer, you then change the action of the tool, that is switch to a DA Polisher and re-polish the paint and the oscillation action will remove the fine swirls left by the wool pad cutting into the paint in a rotating direction.

Garage shots are nice but they don't really show the true results. An honest picture taken in full, overhead direct sun will usually reveal the holograms.

For example, chances are good these rotary buffer swirls wouldn't show up in a garage, but they sure do in direct, bright sunlight.





Here's two popular threads on the topic of getting a swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer that have been posted since I came to work for Autogeek. These two threads document two of our forum members trying to get a swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer but it wasn't till they changed the action of the tool, that is one person FINISHED-OUT using a DA Polisher and the other person FINISHED-OUT using a Flex 3401, and it wasn't until then that a swirl free finish was achieved.

What am I doing wrong - Holograms after using the rotary buffer

and

4 part process still has swirls?

It's possible to create a 100% swirl free finish using only a rotary buffer but it requires skill and experience, using the right pads and products and one thing no one can control and that is the paint you're working on has to be at a minimum somewhat polishable. Some paints are easy to work on and some paints just don't polish very well at all and you really need this factor working in your favor if you want to finish out with only a rotary buffer.

I started out learning and using only a rotary buffer, I've spent thousands of hours behind my trusty, dusty Makita so I'm talking from first hand experience. The rotary buffer is a great tool but it's just one type of tool. You would never see a Pro Mechanic with just one tool in his Roll-Around-Tool chest, rather it would be filled with a large selection of tools so he could match the right tool for the job.

With polishing paint the same analogy holds true, sometimes the rotary buffer is the best tool for the job and sometimes a DA Polisher is the best tool for the job, sometimes your hand is the best tool for the job.

If you have a chance to get a quality, brand name rotary buffer at a great price then get it but don't limit yourself to just one tool if you plan on buffing out cars as a hobby, a passion or a business.

I'll have to take a look in the sun to see if I have any swirls. I plan on going over it again anyway when I get the new GG. For my car I'll probably not use the rotary on it. The paint is corrected good enough for me with the Cyclo. It's silver though so who cares anyway.

[Mike Phillips]

It's silver though so who cares anyway.

I look at threads usually with a little different perspective than some in that I know there are a lot of Lurkers that will read threads on the AG forum and these threads have the potential to be around for decades... with that in mind, it's important that people don't read a thread, look at the picture and then think they can buff out their car's paint using a rotary buffer only and the automatic result will look like the photo you posted in your garage only it will look like that in all light settings.

I've replied to hundreds and probably thousands of questions that go something like this,


Help! Can't get a swirl free finish with my rotary buffer!



So, been there, done that, typed about it for years and will be typing about it for years to come...