Paint Thickness Gauge.

[PAR Detailing]

I agree with Richy, the Highline meter II is great. It isnt going to break the bank but it will do what you need. It gives you an idea of what you are dealing with paint wise and it impresses customers when you use it. Its great for spotting repainted areas if you cant spot it just with your eye.

[Hoytman]

Mike, Charlie, great posts!

I have to admit when first lurking here a few months ago, one of Mr. Phillips articles talked about a paint guage. I figured right then and there it was an important tool, if now of the most important tools, a detailer could own.

My next question became how do I obtain one on my budget. It's a long reach for me at this point, but it'll definately be something to get asap.

Loved that post Charlie. Gosh you've been a big help to me, along with Mr. Phillips, and others.

[Kristopher1129]

I bought one of these...and I never use it. There has been a few times where I busted it out just to show a customer exactly why I can't work on a particular area because it was too far gone. Other than that, I don't get much use out of it.

I really don't see the point in measuring primer, paint, and clear and getting a reading all together. All I wanna know is how much clear there is (unless it's single stage). There's no way to get an actual reading on clear coat only...so therefore I never use it.

[Rsurfer]

I bought one of these...and I never use it. There has been a few times where I busted it out just to show a customer exactly why I can't work on a particular area because it was too far gone. Other than that, I don't get much use out of it.

I really don't see the point in measuring primer, paint, and clear and getting a reading all together. All I wanna know is how much clear there is (unless it's single stage). There's no way to get an actual reading on clear coat only...so therefore I never use it.

If you had heavy correction work or wet sanding to do, a ptg is invaluable. It would give you a safety margin to go by. As an example if you were going to wet sand an area that had some rids and your ptg showed 75 mics..you should pass on the sanding or for that matter any heavy compounding.

[Kristopher1129]

If you had heavy correction work or wet sanding to do, a ptg is invaluable. It would give you a safety margin to go by. As an example if you were going to wet sand an area that had some rids and your ptg showed 75 mics..you should pass on the sanding or for that matter any heavy compounding.

Yeah, I understand it's role. But, I still don't see much use for even getting the reading. You never know how much clear coat is there no matter what the reading is. Unless you painted it yourself...you're really never safe when getting into correction.

I personally feel it's an over priced tool, that really is unnecessary. So the paint reads thin...that doesn't mean you can't correct the clear coat. Say the paint reads thick...that doesn't tell me by any means that it's safe to work on that paint. Say it reads average...still doesn't matter. So you go and measure the door jamb, then the panels, compare and try to make a judgment on the clear coat...you're still not sure (although I do see why this would be done). So how does this reading really change anything you were going to do in the first place?

All that matters is the clear coat, which this expensive tool gives you absolutely no reading for. So again...what's the point? Just my opinion. I feel it gives you a false sense of security, or insecurity. Fact is...heavy correction is risky. Always has been, and most likely will be. No matter what kind of reading I get...it doesn't change my process. It's just about knowing your limits, and using your knowledge to make the best decision based on what you see in front of you. That's just how I feel about it anyways.

Of course I'm speaking only of clear coated paint...not single stage. With single stage, I can absolutely see the point of getting a reading. But, the cheaper, more simple tool the OP originally posted about is more than fine for that IMO.

[Rsurfer]

Yeah, I understand it's role. But, I still don't see much use for even getting the reading. You never know how much clear coat is there no matter what the reading is. Unless you painted it yourself...you're really never safe when getting into correction.

I personally feel it's an over priced tool, that really is unnecessary. So the paint reads thin...that doesn't mean you can't correct the clear coat. Say the paint reads thick...that doesn't tell me by any means that it's safe to work on that paint. Say it reads average...still doesn't matter. So you go and measure the door jamb, then the panels, compare and try to make a judgment on the clear coat...you're still not sure (although I do see why this would be done). So how does this reading really change anything you were going to do in the first place?

All that matters is the clear coat, which this expensive tool gives you absolutely no reading for. So again...what's the point? Just my opinion. I feel it gives you a false sense of security, or insecurity. Fact is...heavy correction is risky. Always has been, and most likely will be. No matter what kind of reading I get...it doesn't change my process. It's just about knowing your limits, and using your knowledge to make the best decision based on what you see in front of you. That's just how I feel about it anyways.

Of course I'm speaking only of clear coated paint...not single stage. With single stage, I can absolutely see the point of getting a reading. But, the cheaper, more simple tool the OP originally posted about is more than fine for that IMO.

Guess you just don't get it.

[Kristopher1129]

Guess you just don't get it.

That little "No More" guy is like telling me to shutup. It's my opinion, and I'm pretty sure I can do that. I said nothing out of line. You don't make or break a thread discussion my man.

[93fox]

Yeah, I understand it's role. But, I still don't see much use for even getting the reading. You never know how much clear coat is there no matter what the reading is. Unless you painted it yourself...you're really never safe when getting into correction.

I personally feel it's an over priced tool, that really is unnecessary. So the paint reads thin...that doesn't mean you can't correct the clear coat. Say the paint reads thick...that doesn't tell me by any means that it's safe to work on that paint. Say it reads average...still doesn't matter. So you go and measure the door jamb, then the panels, compare and try to make a judgment on the clear coat...you're still not sure (although I do see why this would be done). So how does this reading really change anything you were going to do in the first place?

All that matters is the clear coat, which this expensive tool gives you absolutely no reading for. So again...what's the point? Just my opinion. I feel it gives you a false sense of security, or insecurity. Fact is...heavy correction is risky. Always has been, and most likely will be. No matter what kind of reading I get...it doesn't change my process. It's just about knowing your limits, and using your knowledge to make the best decision based on what you see in front of you. That's just how I feel about it anyways.

Of course I'm speaking only of clear coated paint...not single stage. With single stage, I can absolutely see the point of getting a reading. But, the cheaper, more simple tool the OP originally posted about is more than fine for that IMO.

Kris i agree with what you say. I still want to get a paint reader to have a little more confidence and knowing how to attack the paint. It sure can help you decide whether to go aggressive or Least aggressive. Now here is a case that i know people have done. For example, one time this one guy added some thick layers or primer to a hood. makings the mils higher. After that he sanded about less than a coat off and then shot about 2 coats of sealer. once that was done came along about 4 to 5 heavy coats of paint to "cover" everything. By now you know any paint reader is going to read some crazy high readings. And for clear, all he shot was ONE heavy coat. One heavy coat of clear is nothing! Believe it or not there are shops out there that do such things. I hope none of you guys ever encounter such car to work on, but they are out there. So a paint reader will give you high reading when the clear is just one damn coat that as soon as you put any buffer on it you have a very high risk of burning trough. So thats a perfect example how a paint reader cant help you there. Now, There are Fancy paint readers like charlie mentioned that give you readings for the primer, sealer, paint, and clear. Like Kris said, all we need to know is the reading of the clear. But im sure those readers run more than $1,000.

[Kristopher1129]

Kris i agree with what you say. I still want to get a paint reader to have a little more confidence and knowing how to attack the paint. It sure can help you decide whether to go aggressive or Least aggressive. Now here is a case that i know people have done. For example, one time this one guy added some thick layers or primer to a hood. makings the mils higher. After that he sanded about less than a coat off and then shot about 2 coats of sealer. once that was done came along about 4 to 5 heavy coats of paint to "cover" everything. By now you know any paint reader is going to read some crazy high readings. And for clear, all he shot was ONE heavy coat. One heavy coat of clear is nothing! Believe it or not there are shops out there that do such things. I hope none of you guys ever encounter such car to work on, but they are out there. So a paint reader will give you high reading when the clear is just one damn coat that as soon as you put any buffer on it you have a very high risk of burning trough. So thats a perfect example how a paint reader cant help you there. Now, There are Fancy paint readers like charlie mentioned that give you readings for the primer, sealer, paint, and clear. Like Kris said, all we need to know is the reading of the clear. But im sure those readers run more than $1,000.

Right, that's all I'm trying to say. For me, if I'm gonna drop that much money on a PTG...I would hope to get more of a specific reading that will actually help me make a much better decision on what to do, or not to do.

I can see taking a reading to get a better idea of how aggressive, or less aggressive you should be. But, at the same time...you may be getting mislead by this reading just cause you don't know the thickness of the clear coat. You may get a thick reading, and feel more confident than you should...and you get a little too aggressive cause of this reading. Then bam, burned paint.

If the PTGs were a little cheaper...like maybe $200-$250, then I feel their use would be balanced by the price. But most of them are $500+ for a reading that in all reality...doesn't necessarily help you. Even with the reading...you're still guessing IMO. That's just me...I'm not trying to stir up trouble, ha.

[C. Charles Hahn]

I can see where Kris is coming from, but there are still situations where a PTG can help you judge your correction process regardless of what "uncertainty" there may be regarding the exact makeup and nature of the film build you're presented with.

Example 1:

The exact same combination of pad/polish/machine/speed/pressure can remove different amounts of paint on different sprayed paint systems. For example let's say I use M105 and an LC Orange pad on my Flex 3401 at speed 5 on two separate cars. The first car has very hard clear coat, and after a single buffing cycle I find that I've removed 4 microns of clear. The second car's clear is very soft, and after a single buffing cycle I find that I've removed 8 microns of clear.

What does this tell me? For one thing, if I didn't know if the paint was hard or soft, by seeing how much material I'm removing I can determine what sort of finish I'm dealing with and plan the rest of my correction procedure accordingly. Also, if we look at the PTG as a teaching tool, it reinforces the importance of starting with the least aggressive buffing system to get the job done.

Example 2:

Let's assume Oscar's scenario from above where the PTG is giving me extremely thick readings, yet there's only a single coat of clear on the car. For one thing, if I'm getting sky-high readings, especially if it's only on a few panels, I instantly get a red flag that some refinishing work has been done on those panels. Because I know that a single coat of refinish clear in most commonly used paint systems is going to spray out between 1.0 and 1.5 mils (per the P-sheets), I can still extrapolate a pretty good baseline of how much clear I have to work with (if I err on the side of caution and assume all I have is one coat, I know I won't cut through even if there may be 2-3 coats actually on the car).

So again, yeah I can see where Kris is coming from and as a paint correction technician gets more experience and exposure to a wide variety of finishes and paint systems the need to always grab the PTG for every single job becomes less and less, but it can still be a valuable tool to have in one's arsenal to help them spot issues up front, or demonstrate to a skeptical customer why some defects cannot be safely removed. In the case of a shop, it is a great training tool to get a new tech thinking through the process and reinforcing concepts with numerical data to prove "why things have to work the way they have to work."

Once you understand what you're doing and have built a level of respect for the risks you're taking (in this case you're actually turning blind risk into calculated risk) you're much less likely to screw something up -- though obviously there is no way to be 100% risk free when doing this type of work.