Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?

[Diamond Dog]

My goal is to find a spray on, stand alone sealant or wax, that can easily be removed without a polisher, that gives at least 6 months of protection. Currently I use Car Pro Reload which falls pretty short of 6 months. I want a spray on vs liquid or paste solution to minimize the friction you need to apply to avoid swirling. Perhaps I have unreasonable expectations.

Many of the reviews for the New Turtle Wax Hybrid COATING (it says Coating on the bottle) are from detailers that were invited to a wine and dine launch event. On most of the reviews they talk about this product like it is a sealant (temporary) vs a coating (permanent). TW verified with me that to remove it, you have to compound it off (even if it shows no signs of water beading by putting it through a torture test as YouTubers love to do

I want a temporary sealant because there might be something else I may want to try in the future or not like this prodcut, I may want to start with fresh paint after a year to ensure a good bond, and finally many cars have partial Paint Protection Film that makes compounding it off an issue (scratching the PPF and voiding the warranty).

I feel that reviewers are talking about this product incorrectly. They should be comparing it other permanent coatings such as Cquartz or something like that and making it known that this is a coating not a sealant and will have to be compounded off should they wish to remove. Most consumers don't know how to compound off old product.

They should address questions like "why wouldn't you pay a little more and get 2 years of protection from competitive product?" and make more accurate comparisons when doing "shoot out" comparisons.

Again, Still on the hunt for a pray sealant vs a coating that can last (show water beading) 6 months or so.

[Eldorado2k]

Asking any spray sealant to last 6 months on a single application is a pipe dream.. You’d be hard pressed to ask even the most durable liquid or paste sealant to last that long.

The key is re application before it fails. If you’re able to re apply a spray sealant every 1-2 weeks or at the very least once per month you should be able to stretch it to that 6 months you’re looking for.

[Mike Phillips]

TW verified with me that to remove it, you have to compound it off

Not to be picky about words but I am a Word Guy.

I have to wonder if it could simply be polished off.

There's a lot of difference in the aggressiveness level between a compound and a polish. In my how-to books, I use 4 groups or categories to separate compounds and polishes.

I state in it, and I believe from experience and from what I've seen in the industry, that you can separate compounds and polishes into at a minimum, 4 categories. Any companies product can be placed into one of the below categories.

1. Aggressive or coarse compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a

• Foam polishing pad
• Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
• A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut

Just a guess...

I don't like turning something that should be very simple into rocket science personally.

[Diamond Dog]

Not to be picky about words but I am a Word Guy.

I have to wonder if it could simply be polished off.

There's a lot of difference in the aggressiveness level between a compound and a polish. In my how-to books, I use 4 groups or categories to separate compounds and polishes.

I state in it, and I believe from experience and from what I've seen in the industry, that you can separate compounds and polishes into at a minimum, 4 categories. Any companies product can be placed into one of the below categories.

1. Aggressive or coarse compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a

• Foam polishing pad
• Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
• A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut

Just a guess...

I don't like turning something that should be very simple into rocket science personally.

Thank you Mike for the welcome.

You can see TW's exact words here in the comments section on THEIR channel: YouTube

They state "compound"

Turtle Wax's target audience would seem to be the consumer as that is who buys most of their products. This is how they get throughput and the large sales. They talk about "easy" which I feel does not align with how you address detailers (they do things that require more skill).

IMHO the process you described below may be simple for any detailer reading it, but above the scope of what a consumer (even on the enthusiast level like me) understands are is comfortable doing. And what about doing everything you stated on PPF? TW states to put this product on everything: glass, plastic, PPF. Many cars have partial or full PPF these days. Even they say not do polish on PPF film in those comments.

I would consider myself as an enthusiast level consumer. TW's ideal candidate for this product. A consumer like me has really dumb questions, like "How do I even know if this is polished off enough that its removed so I don't go further than I need to?" With COATINGS, reviewers and marketing typical speak of the importance of paint prep, decontaminating, etc. I find that lacking so far with the reviews and videos of this product. The product seems a bit more advanced than that, and more along the lines of something like CQartz.

I would settle with "it can be removed without a polisher with our polish by hand" This would seem to align with the ease of use for consumers more. I would also settle for "Don't worry about this so much. After 8 months just apply another product on top of this after an IPA wipe down. You would probably only get an extra week or two of endurance if you applied to bare paint. Other products will bond to other products and people worry too much about this"

[FUNX650]

With COATINGS, reviewers and marketing
typical speak of the importance of paint prep,
decontaminating, etc. I find that lacking so far
with the reviews and videos of this product.

The product seems a bit more advanced than that,
and more along the lines of something like CQartz.

•I’m going to go out on limb and state,
unequivocally, that it’s not a Coating along
the lines of something like CQuartz. Instead:

-The manufacturer (Turtle Wax) calls this product
a synthetic Wax—a product based on man-made
ingredients; in reality: a Sealant. A Sealant that’s
formulated with some SiO2 molecules suspended
in its emulsion. No more. No less.

•Using a even a mildly abrasive Polish, by hand
or machine, will totally remove the biggest lot
of all the Sealants currently on the market.
-I know of no scientific reason that this
Sealant should be different.

Turtle Wax's target audience would seem to
be the consumer as that is who buys most of
their products.

Understatement of the year...

Since I have no skin in the game:
I’m not going to fret about this Company’s
marketing practices and the audience(s)
they have, or may not have targeted.


Bob

[Mike Phillips]

Thank you Mike for the welcome.

You can see TW's exact words here in the comments section on THEIR channel:

YouTube

They state "compound"

Wow. That's really aggressive. I've had to remove our BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating but was able to remove it using only a polish and it was on the paint like super glue. Put it this way, I could not rub it off with itself or a solvent. I had to abrade it off but still - only used a fine cut polish.

Over the years, my training and experience in the online forum world, (sometimes a tick nasty), I've honed my writing skills and ALWAYS pick and choose each and every word I use publicly specifically and purposefully.

Maybe they don't have a Mike Phillips writing their video scripts or any wording for any other social media touch points? I've found my writing skills to be a real asset and strength for Autogeek (and previously Meguiar's) when compared to any peer or competitor.

There is value to real-world experience, even when it comes to writing accurate information.

Turtle Wax's target audience would seem to be the consumer as that is who buys most of their products. This is how they get throughput and the large sales. They talk about "easy" which I feel does not align with how you address detailers (they do things that require more skill).

I simply keep things real. My background is detailing since before this thing called the Internet and to this day I continue to detail cars. As simple as it may seem, actually doing the thing I "talk" or in this case, "type" about, keeps my writhing and speaking fresh and above all accurate.

I see a lot "dialog" in various communications including newsletters where the words used by the writers are simply not accurate and my guess is a lot of what is said and typed comes from people that don't actually have a background in detailing and probably don't even really detail entire cars. There's something to be said and value for being the real-deal.

IMHO the process you described below may be simple for any detailer reading it, but above the scope of what a consumer (even on the enthusiast level like me) understands are is comfortable doing. And what about doing everything you stated on PPF? TW states to put this product on everything: glass, plastic, PPF. Many cars have partial or full PPF these days. Even they say not do polish on PPF film in those comments.

I would consider myself as an enthusiast level consumer. TW's ideal candidate for this product. A consumer like me has really dumb questions, like "How do I even know if this is polished off enough that its removed so I don't go further than I need to?" With COATINGS, reviewers and marketing typical speak of the importance of paint prep, decontaminating, etc. I find that lacking so far with the reviews and videos of this product. The product seems a bit more advanced than that, and more along the lines of something like CQartz.

And back to being a word guy, when you say "you" - you're referring to Turtle Wax, not me specifically? I have not described how to do anything in this thread.

I would settle with "it can be removed without a polisher with our polish by hand" This would seem to align with the ease of use for consumers more.

I completely agree.

"WE" in the online detailing world may have "polishers" but a large company should not "assume" Joe Consumer also owns a polisher or polishers.

And the ability to remove a consumer grade product using a quality polish by hand would be understandable - if said product had to be removed. If it MUST be remove by machine an also by machine using a true COMPOUND - this is a jump from enthusiast to professional in my opinion.


3 reasons why,

1: It should not be assumed everyone owns a quality polisher. By quality polisher, a Porter Cable is the minimum. Some type of old school orbital for $35.00 at Walmart doesn't qualify. A person would also have to have the right pads for this tool or any tools that works as good or better than it. (The PC is pretty much an entry level free spinning random orbital polisher. It's a great tool, but still entry level).

2: Anyone that reads my articles or replies to this forum, or has taken a class that I have taught - knows a talk a LOT about abrasive technology. And by this I mean - there's GREAT abrasive technology and CRAP for abrasive technology. There is no in-between. Things with abrasive technology, that would include compounds polishes and cleaner/waxes or AIOs, they either work or they don't. By this I mean, they can either remove a defect without leaving their own defect or they can remove defects but leave behind their own defects in the place of the original defects. Abrasive technology has come a long way but there's still junk on the market. To assume the average consumer knows this stuff or owns products that use great abrasive technology is back to assuming.

3: From my article - Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips - both consumers and professionals alike should always try to use the least aggressive option when working on factory car paint for ANTYING because it's so thin to start with.


My guess is - whoever chose the word compound simply meant polish or a "light" abrading product, not a hardcore body shop compound. Especially for a spray-on product.


The good news is, if this new Turtle Wax product really requires a true compound to remove it completely that's a testimony to how tough it is and how strong of a bond it creates to your car's paint.

My guess is - it can be removed simply by using a fine cut polish, by hand or when using a simple free spinning, random orbital polisher.

I have not used it or any of the new products yet. I think we have them in the warehouse, but I've been a tick busy shooting B-roll video for all the segments we shot at My Classic Car last week and even this morning and again tomorrow.

Always busy...

Besides, that, I'm not a "YouTube Influencer" so I was not invited to the grand reveal of these products. I think I was filming with Dennis Gage at the time anyway. Not a bad gig if you can get it. Maybe some day I'll move up the ranks to become an influencer? To date I'm just a blue collar working class dog with more hard-core accurate how-to information shared publicly longer than anyone else in this industry that's still breathing.

I would also settle for

"Don't worry about this so much. After 8 months just apply another product on top of this after an IPA wipe down. You would probably only get an extra week or two of endurance if you applied to bare paint. Other products will bond to other products and people worry too much about this"

I agree with the above and it's probably accurate. I'm 100% confident the chemist behind these new products know what they are doing and created formulas for Joe and Joanne Consumer. We in the online word tend to take things very literal as we should but that doesn't mean these product not only work as advertised but are also EASY to use.

[Diamond Dog]

And back to being a word guy, when you say "you" - you're referring to Turtle Wax, not me specifically? I have not described how to do anything in this thread.

I was referring to when you wrote this:

"My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a

Foam polishing pad
Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut "

I am not saying you laid out the steps. But my point was even the simple "words" you used in your description of equipment imply a more complex process which are no big deal for detailers. But for someone like me, rather intimidating.

If these tools are needed to correctly deal with this product, how do you think it would sell if TW just told the truth "This is more robust than a sealant. In the future you may need to use a polisher, the correct polish, and the correct pads to remove it". All the reviews just seem to talk about how easy it is, don't take into consideration PPF, and you see all these "torture tests" being done on it.

I am hoping as time goes on that more of these dimensions are talked about and YES BY MORE THAN THE INFLUENCERS THAT WERE WINED AND DINED AND GETTING ALL THIS ATTENTION FROM TW which I must admit feel are a bit biased at times (not all, but a lot of them)

[Mike Phillips]

I was referring to when you wrote this:

"My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a

Foam polishing pad
Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut "

I am not saying you laid out the steps. But my point was even the simple "words" you used in your description of equipment imply a more complex process which are no big deal for detailers. But for someone like me, rather intimidating.

Now I see what you're saying. I didn't lay out any specific steps for this new product, just outlined a simple theoretical process should one need it.


And I agree. To this day, there are millions of car owners aka do-it-yourselfers that are still working by hand and do not own a quality polisher let along feel confident to compound their car. I meet these people all the time. Just because a person has the financial ability to go purchase a brand new Audi or BMW or even Ford, Chevy or Dodge truck does not also mean they are experienced and even outfitted to machine compound the paint on this high dollar ticket types of transportation.

If these tools are needed to correctly deal with this product, how do you think it would sell if TW just told the truth "This is more robust than a sealant. In the future you may need to use a polisher, the correct polish, and the correct pads to remove it". All the reviews just seem to talk about how easy it is, don't take into consideration PPF, and you see all these "torture tests" being done on it.

I'm sure they mean well. I've been involved in a lot of new product launches in my career and one thing I know, everything goes through an evolution, even an product launch.

I am hoping as time goes on that more of these dimensions are talked about and YES BY MORE THAN THE INFLUENCERS THAT WERE WINED AND DINED AND GETTING ALL THIS ATTENTION FROM TW which I must admit feel are a bit biased at times (not all, but a lot of them)

And to my previous point - everything goes through an evolution. Used to be forums were king, now it's YouTube and Instagram and Facebook groups, etc. The latest evolution is Tik Tok but after watching some news stories I'll hold off on downloading this App just in case there's any truth to the stories about how it "can" harvest all your data.


Evolution - everything is in a state of change...

[Calendyr]

Not to be picky about words but I am a Word Guy.

I have to wonder if it could simply be polished off.

There's a lot of difference in the aggressiveness level between a compound and a polish. In my how-to books, I use 4 groups or categories to separate compounds and polishes.

I state in it, and I believe from experience and from what I've seen in the industry, that you can separate compounds and polishes into at a minimum, 4 categories. Any companies product can be placed into one of the below categories.

1. Aggressive or coarse compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a

• Foam polishing pad
• Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
• A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut

Just a guess...

I don't like turning something that should be very simple into rocket science personally.

I am sure you are right about this. A polish should be able to remove any spray on sealant. I am guessing Turtle Wax mentions compound for 2 reasons:

1) They don't sell polishes as far as I know but they do sell compounds
2) Most people don't understand the difference and compound is know by many

[Mike Phillips]

My goal is to find a spray on, stand alone sealant or wax, that can easily be removed without a polisher, that gives at least 6 months of protection.

Oh yeah... since this is your first post,

Welcome to AutogeekOnline!


I approved your pending account this morning.