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Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips
Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips
You know a car wax company is serious when they add a wet sanding paper to their line of products.
Why?
Because wet sanding is serious stuff.
This also means this company not only has a COMPLETE line from A to Z but they can go head to head with traditional companies that cater to the body shop world. Most car wax companies cater to the consumer ore enthusiast world, their products are traditionally made for and targeted at the retail market. Nothing wrong this this but it is a specific demographic group of people that is extremely opposite of the needs of the body shop or fresh custom paint world.
Griot's has crossed the line with the introduction of the Nikken Finishing Papers to their already robust line. Griot's could now call on body shops and offer a system approach that includes body shop safe compounds and polishes. And more important, the abrasive technology used for the finishing papers and also in their BOSS compounds and polishes is top shelf. While not all body shops are focused on using the best compounds and polishes on the market as evident by the swirled out messes we see in the blogosphere all the time, there are some body shops that do want quality abrasive technology and they can get that with Griot's and their now complete system that includes,
* Wet sanding papers --> Technically these are finishing papers not sanding papers, the difference is in the extreme high quality of the abrasive size and placement over the paper
* Compounds
* Polishes
Because of my friendship with Bill Stuart (The Absorber), I know just enough about the Nikken Finishing Papers to be dangerous. Suffice to say, these are an electronics grade finishing paper, NOT an automotive grade wet/dry sandpaper. The primary benefits are,
- Uniform particle size
- Uniform particle placement
- 100% fill over the entire sheet of paper
- Latex impregnated paper that won't fall apart even after years of soaking in water
- Longer lasting
- Faster cutting
- Leaves more paint on the car
- Sanding marks buff out faster and easier
- Reduced risk for tracers
The above is just off the top of my head, I'm probably forgetting a few...
The introduction of a line of sanding finishing papers to the Griot's line is not surprising since in the last few years Richard Griot, in his wisdom has added three hardcore car guys that area also former employees at Meguiar's.
- Jeff Brown
- Rod Kraft
- Doug Hodge
Each one of these guys has forgotten more about car detailing than I can remember. They are as the saying goes... the real deal....
It makes sense that Griot's would add a super high quality finishing paper to their line of top notch product BECAUSE Griot's goes after not just Joe Consumer, (nothing wrong with Joe Consumer), they go after the hard core serious car owners that do things like buy and restore their own cars, in other words, hard core do-it-yourselfers.
What does this mean and how does this tie into wet sanding?
Great question, and here's the tie-in. Hardcore car guys do things like purchase neglected Mustangs and Chevelle out of garages and then fix them up, restore them or hot rod them and at some point in the process these types of cars get RE-PAINTED and as most of you probably know, most re-paints come with ORANGE PEEL and most hardcore car guys are not going to be satisfied with an orange peel finish. So what does a hardcore DO-IT-YOURSEVER car guy do?
He learns how to wetsand, cut and buff.
He learns by reading a forum like AutogeekOnline.net that if you want it done right you have to do it yourself and the reason for this is because most body shops don't and are not going to use high quality, more costly sandpapers like the Griot's Nikken Finishing Papers but instead they're going to use low cost, wet/dry sand papers that "yes" - will remove the orange peel but in the process will remove too much paint, (that they were just paid to spray onto the car), and if the buffing isn't done perfect they're going to leave behind tracers.
Most body shops are not sanding and buffing shops their collision shops, they specialize in fixing damaged body panels and spraying paint. Sanding and buffing is an art form. It's also something that takes TIME and quality products to do it right and that's not what your average body shop is about.
So hardcore car guys search for the right products and the right information to use the products and then do-it-themselves.
Uniform particle size i.e. uniform abrasive grains
100% fill = Uniform particle placement over the entire sheet of paper
The above is the back story... now lets take a look at the Griot's Garage BOSS Finishing Papers.
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Re: Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips
Continued....
Removing orange peel and reducing orange peel
These are two very different things.
Removing orange peel
Removing orange peel is the process of sanding a panel completely flat and then removing 100% of your sanding marks to create a mirror finish. When a surface is completely flat it reflects images like a mirror.
D.O.I.
The flatter the surface the higher the D.O.I. or Distinction of Image. Hardcore car guys what a mirror finish on their show cars and/or even their toys. With custom paint jobs on cars they restore and/or hotrod, this is a lot easier to do because there's planning that goes on behind the build. Planning means paying the painter to spray extra clear onto the car so there's not only enough paint to wet sand, cut and buff but down the road there's enough paint on the car for future compounding and polishing. For example if a bird leaves a bird dropping on the hood you want enough paint on the car AFTER wet sanding and buffing to have plenty of film-build to safely remove the etching in the paint without going through the clear coat and exposing the basecoat. Or other accidents, like accidental scratches, scrapes and scuffs. Life happens and you want some extra paint.
Factory paint is both thin and hard
Factory paint is only around 2 mils thin, that's thinner than your average post-it note. So I always meet guys that just bought a brand new Corvette and of course, they want the orange peel removed to max out the D.O.I. and give their Vette that show car look but most of these guys I meet don't know how thin the paint is on their car. They also don't know simple things like,
- Wet sanding removes paint.
- Compounding removes paint.
- Polishing removes a little paint
And when the paint on your brand new Corvette (or fill in the blank), is thinner than a post-it note, there's simply not enough paint to sand and buff safely. Can it be done? Yes. But it does require more time and of course, high quality products like finishing papers instead of sanding papers and just as important, compound and polishes that use great abrasive technology. Even still - it's risky. It's easy to sand and buff a large flat panel... it's when guys get around corners, edges, tight spots and raised body lines that they get into trouble and end up either sanding through or buffing through the top layer of paint. Ouch.
Factory paint is fully dried and cured --> hard
Factory paint is baked on while the car is travelling down the assembly line. It's also fully dried, cured and set-up by the time you take possession of the car. This is normal. What it means though is that while sanding factory paint is easy, (sanding is putting scratches in the paint), the tricky part is getting them 100% out of the paint and this becomes more difficult the harder the paint.
New paint job by your local body shop
Custom paint jobs offer a window of time before they are fully dry, cured and hardened. This gives a person a little more forgiveness when buffing out their sanding marks.
Reducing orang peel
Reducing orange peel is actually more difficult than removing orange peel because if you sand too much you will remove the orange peel, not leave any behind.
The idea and goal behind reducing orange peel is to make any body panels that have been repaired and/or replaced and then painted by a local body shop match the factory orange peel.
When it comes to reducing orange peel the idea is to lightly sand and in some cases lightly scuff the tops of the hills and valleys and then buffing out your sanding marks. The goal is to flatten the orange peel a little but not remove it 100%
Keep in mind,
- Wet sanding removes paint.
- Compounding removes paint.
- Polishing removes a little paint
So in most cases you're better off to understand and the compound and polish and then check your results versus get too aggressive. The reason why is simple and that's because if there's no going back if you make the paint too perfect.
Make sense?
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Re: Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips
Wow!! What a spectacular review!! Thanks Mike!!
I see DA sanding much more than hand sanding. I'm a bit surprised why Griot's went the hand sanding route. Then again, I'm not a pro with sanding.
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Re: Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips
Originally Posted by WRAPT C5Z06
Wow!! What a spectacular review!! Thanks Mike!!
Thanks, I kind of feel it's underwhelming as far as reviews go.... but I have 3 wet sanding projects coming up so I'll try to have an extra person to take good pictures and some video.
Originally Posted by WRAPT C5Z06
I see DA sanding much more than hand sanding. I'm a bit surprised why Griot's went the hand sanding route.
It's less expensive the purchasing sanding discs for machine sanding. It does require more skill, that his hand sanding requires more skill than machine sanding.
And of course... most people already own a hand or two...
Not everyone owns a air DA or an electric DA.
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Super Member
Re: Griots Garage BOSS Finishing Papers- Reduce Orange Peel - Review by Mike Phillips
Nice review Mike. You and Frank did a great job of bringing that OP down. As you have said, I 100% agree that matching OP is much harder than totally removing it. What's great about hand/block sanding is not having any da pig tails. Again, great job.
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