Paint Hardness Spreadsheet

I have created a blank template for experienced detailers to contribute to. I have read in numerous posts about a certain manufacturer having soft or hard clearcoat, which affects the pad or compound choices. Since a lot of people have found out by trial and error which is which, I thought it might be good to gather this info into one place that everyone can edit.

I am, by definition, a newb. I'm sure it's not perfect. So if I missed something, feel free to add or delete. I gave open permission to allow anyone to edit the Google Doc spreadsheet. Simply put an "X" in the box for hard or soft. I also added a column that is quite subjective: Winning Combination for pads and compounds/polishes.

I understand that this info may differ from car to car, maybe it had a repaint, etc; but in gerneral terms, for instance, I've heard that Audi's have hard clears vs. Subaru's soft clearcoat. It's really meant to help people brand new to this to make an informed decision. Eventually we each find our favorites and stick to it, but this chart is meant to be a quick reference.

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE&usp=sharing

Hope this helps in any way, and thanks in advance for your input.

Great Idea.

Cadillac I'd put at the hardest, dodge / mopar's in general are pretty soft. If fresh paint is a 1/10 on the hardness scale I'd consider dodge to be a 3, and cadillac is a 9. Everything else seems to be inbetween. Nissan I'd consider a 6/10Honda I'd consider a 3 as well, subaru 3. Chevy really depends, I've had a 12' gray silverado rip the clear right off (keep in mind it could have been resprayed), and I've had a red 10' tahoe that was actually single stage. I've had impalas that were probably a 4/10. I've had a camaro ZL1 that had paint as hard as I've ever seen on a scratch that was in a tight area. You have to account for variation in colors, and different plants. When I say colors, some dealers offer "special" colors, and the clear coat on these particular colors maybe different from there "standard" colors.

If you are not familiar with spotting fresh paint VS OEM paint you should always attempt to use the least harsh approach first, as a resprayed cadillac bumper is just waiting to get burned when the OEM hood needs a super duty compound just to break the surface.

When I'm dealing with a hard paint I like to use a flat pad, as opposed to a waffle pad, or any other design, especially for deep scratch removal. The reason being I like to use the heat to my advantage when it's necessary and possible.

I like using the waffle pads on any other paint for the reverse effect, and often take breaks in different areas and feel the surface with my palm to see how hot the area is. If you instinctively pull your hand away from the heat it's time to move away from that area for a bit, and maybe slow the machine down and take longer strides back and forth. This is just my advice that I can offer.

Great job. This will be a good point of reference and a good starting point for the test spot.

Nicely done and thank you for sharing it here!! :props:

well I will add what I know to the list. Thank you for starting this.

Some makes seem to have wide variation across models and even vary by the production factory. Here's an article which talks about paint variation and has some BMW-specific paint info since they have some wide variations:
http://1car-detailing-training.com/p...e-by-kevin.pdf

So you might put an asterisk for certain makes (like BMW) that have a lot of variation, with hard and soft in the same model year.

Need to put a disclaimer *This sheet is a general guide for a point of reference and paint systems can vary from make, model and year from the same manufacture and sometimes from panel to panel. This should not serve as replacement for a "test spot".*

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Originally Posted by SR99

Some makes seem to have wide variation across models and even vary by the production factory. Here's an article which talks about paint variation and has some BMW-specific paint info since they have some wide variations:
http://1car-detailing-training.com/p...e-by-kevin.pdf

So you might put an asterisk for certain makes (like BMW) that have a lot of variation, with hard and soft in the same model year.

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Thanks for sharing. I added the link to the spreadsheet for reference.

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Originally Posted by Meticulous-Detail

Need to put a disclaimer *This sheet is a general guide for a point of reference and paint systems can vary from make, model and year from the same manufacture and sometimes from panel to panel. This should not serve as replacement for a "test spot".*

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Thanks for the suggestion. I added this note to the top of the page.

This is a Google Doc that has open permission to edit. Feel free to edit as you see fit. It's meant to be a living document. Edit away! I won't get offended if it changes. I just took a stab getting the ball rolling on this subject. Hopefully everyone can play a part in making it better and easier for us newbs out here.

Thanks for you support!

I added a medium column and some other small changes. Question are contributors putting an X and then a number next to the X indicating how hard, medium or soft?

I noticed when I put an X in a column that a 9 showed up to the right, I then back spaced and it went away. Show just to make things clear did everyone put a number next to their X or is it the spreadsheet.

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

I have created a blank template for experienced detailers to contribute to.

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Thanks for putting this together, I appreciate the time and effort that goes into projects like these...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

I understand that this info may differ from car to car, maybe it had a repaint, etc; but in general terms, for instance, I've heard that Audi's have hard clears vs. Subaru's soft clearcoat.

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Audi Soft Paint - Making Generalizations about Hardness and Softness

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

It's really meant to help people brand new to this to make an informed decision.

Eventually we each find our favorites and stick to it, but this chart is meant to be a quick reference.

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I'm confident over time as this chart increases with information it will help a lot of people that are new to detailing. The next best thing a person can do when starting out and unsure if the paint on the car they are working on is hard or soft is to do some testing and follow the sage advice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done to leave the most paint on the car afterwards.



How To Do a Test Spot
(and why it's so important)

The LINE ---> How to avoid the line!

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"



All the above is just for reference to go with the chart for all the people that will read this into the future, both forum members and lurkers...



Thanks Andrew for putting this together... :dblthumb2:


Here's a screenshot so everyone can see how this is laid out...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...ness_Chart.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

Thanks for putting this together, I appreciate the time and effort that goes into projects like these...





Audi Soft Paint - Making Generalizations about Hardness and Softness






I'm confident over time as this chart increases with information it will help a lot of people that are new to detailing. The next best thing a person can do when starting out and unsure if the paint on the car they are working on is hard or soft is to do some testing and follow the sage advice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done to leave the most paint on the car afterwards.



How To Do a Test Spot
(and why it's so important)

The LINE ---> How to avoid the line!

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"



All the above is just for reference to go with the chart for all the people that will read this into the future, both forum members and lurkers...



Thanks Andrew for putting this together... :dblthumb2:


Here's a screenshot so everyone can see how this is laid out...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...ness_Chart.jpg

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Thanks Mike. This subject came up in discussion on another thread and I felt compelled to start a basic chart and discussion. This subject can be touchy at times and I thought it would be good to have a point of reference that everyone can go back to if need be.

Paint hardness or softness is mentioned a lot of times and some people bring it up because it changed their decision on what pad or compound they had to use to yield the best results. If those same people find it happening multiple times on their customer's cars, then they can add the info here to share. Like mentioned before, it is subjective, and everyone should test out any car before they commit to using the suggestions, but it is meant to give a general sense of direction.

It's also good, because a lot of new people find this site and look for direction because they bought a new vehicle and want to maintain it the best way possible. So they can review this, in conjuction with posting specific questions, to make their decision on their 1st purchase easier.

Thanks again for those appropriate pointers.

We should probably just stick with an "X" in the appropriate column. I think the numbers make it too confusing. Just a suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

It's also good, because a lot of new people find this site and look for direction because they bought a new vehicle and want to maintain it the best way possible. So they can review this, in conjunction with posting specific questions, to make their decision on their 1st purchase easier.

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I agree 100%

The one thing people new to detailing don't have is experience and the only way to gage if a paint system is hard or soft is by having already buffed on multiple cars with a wide range of softness and hardness.

How could a person know if the paint was hard or soft if they've never buffed out a car before?

A: A chart like the one you've created.

B: Doing a test spot and then posting the results to a forum like this and asking for feedback as it relates to what they are seeing left in the paint together with the pad, chemical and tool used.

C: Starting with just a posted question...


I actually cover the topic of paint hardness and paint softness in my how-to book, page 7 & 8 in the new second edition and pages 9 & 10 in the first edition and I my recommendation as to the best way to judge paint hardness or softness is via experience and explain why in that section.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

Thanks again for those appropriate pointers.

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Paint hardness and softness is a common topic as it is a huge unknown variable between cars, (between paint systems), I think I have a really good article or two on this topic on MOL that dates back to 2005 or 2006.


Again, nice work and a valuable asset to the forum.


:dblthumb2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

I have created a blank template for experienced detailers to contribute to. I have read in numerous posts about a certain manufacturer having soft or hard clearcoat, which affects the pad or compound choices. Since a lot of people have found out by trial and error which is which, I thought it might be good to gather this info into one place that everyone can edit.

I am, by definition, a newb. I'm sure it's not perfect. So if I missed something, feel free to add or delete. I gave open permission to allow anyone to edit the Google Doc spreadsheet. Simply put an "X" in the box for hard or soft. I also added a column that is quite subjective: Winning Combination for pads and compounds/polishes.

I understand that this info may differ from car to car, maybe it had a repaint, etc; but in gerneral terms, for instance, I've heard that Audi's have hard clears vs. Subaru's soft clearcoat. It's really meant to help people brand new to this to make an informed decision. Eventually we each find our favorites and stick to it, but this chart is meant to be a quick reference.

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE&usp=sharing

Hope this helps in any way, and thanks in advance for your input.

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Wow! Thanks so much for this. It really helps.

I know others may have mentioned it, but what do you think about a comments column for anomalies or exceptions to the generally accepted findings? ie. BMW has generally hard paint expect for their Black which tends to be softer? What do you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

I actually cover the topic of paint hardness and paint softness in my how-to book, page 7 & 8 in the new second edition and pages 9 & 10 in the first edition and I my recommendation as to the best way to judge paint hardness or softness is via experience and explain why in that section.





Paint hardness and softness is a common topic as it is a huge unknown variable between cars, (between paint systems), I think I have a really good article or two on this topic on MOL that dates back to 2005 or 2006.


Again, nice work and a valuable asset to the forum.


:dblthumb2:

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Thanks Mike. Probably a good first purchase for new people is your book. I think we get excited and want to jump right into buffing our cars so that it looks as good as the ones showcased in the show-n-shine section. But that takes practice and a wealth of knowledge. Your books help with 50% of that equation.

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Originally Posted by Goodloe3

Wow! Thanks so much for this. It really helps.

I know others may have mentioned it, but what do you think about a comments column for anomalies or exceptions to the generally accepted findings? ie. BMW has generally hard paint expect for their Black which tends to be softer? What do you think?

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Sure, no problem. I agree a comment column would be a goood addition. If you want, feel free to add that to the doc as you're envisioning. It's fairly simple to do. If you're having trouble with it, PM me and I'll assist.

great post idea! thanks

Thanks for this spreadsheet - great idea!
Just wondering...is there some kind of code in the label on the door panel of a car that tells where the car was made? I don't know if you can or not, but if you can, this might help also. Just a thought.

Great post, really nice list and thanks so much for sharing..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meticulous-Detail

We should probably just stick with an "X" in the appropriate column. I think the numbers make it too confusing. Just a suggestion.

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I took out the numbers someone put in there to avoid confusion. It's starting to take shape. Thanks for the input everyone. Let's keep it going! :props:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AC in OC

I took out the numbers someone put in there to avoid confusion. It's starting to take shape. Thanks for the input everyone. Let's keep it going! :props:

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:dblthumb2:

I noticed that the "Dodge" line has an entry, but the "Chrysler" line is still blank.

I'm wondering in this case, color for color and year for year, would the paint/clear coat of a given color of, for example, a 2008 Dodge PU probably have the same characteristics as a 2008 Chrysler 300 of the same color?

If "true/correct/or reasonable", then the same information could be placed/used on the Chrysler line as is contained on the Dodge line????

I noticed that Mercury isn't listed, but could Ford info be used as a starting point for Mercury?

I hope I have stated my question in an understandable way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jhodges

I noticed that the "Dodge" line has an entry, but the "Chrysler" line is still blank.

I'm wondering in this case, color for color and year for year, would the paint/clear coat of a given color of, for example, a 2008 Dodge PU probably have the same characteristics as a 2008 Chrysler 300 of the same color?

If "true/correct/or reasonable", then the same information could be placed/used on the Chrysler line as is contained on the Dodge line????

I noticed that Mercury isn't listed, but could Ford info be used as a starting point for Mercury?

I hope I have stated my question in an understandable way.

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Just insert a row to add Mercury, or anything else for that matter.
I inserted Pontiac the first day. ;)

Chevrolet in my experience, their paint is hard as a rock. But i can only say that about the 00-06 cars.

Chrysler has decently hard paint. I just corrected a 2011 300C, and it was hard. I heard that when MB took over Chrysler however long back, that the paint started becoming harder.

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Originally Posted by cardaddy

Just insert a row to add Mercury, or anything else for that matter.
I inserted Pontiac the first day. ;)

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Thanks for that. I knew I was going to miss a couple manufacturers. I just copied from a pull-down list from MSN Autos. I'm sure there will be more to add.

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Originally Posted by HardLineDetail

Chevrolet in my experience, their paint is hard as a rock. But i can only say that about the 00-06 cars.

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Feel free to add that info. There is a comment column in the spreadsheet for good info like this. Thanks for sharing.

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Originally Posted by NickBlaine

Chrysler has decently hard paint. I just corrected a 2011 300C, and it was hard. I heard that when MB took over Chrysler however long back, that the paint started becoming harder.

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Also good info to add to the comments column. Feel free to jump right into the spreadsheet and add it. Thanks for sharing your experience!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cardaddy

Just insert a row to add Mercury, or anything else for that matter.
I inserted Pontiac the first day. ;)

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Inserted Mercury. Thanks.

I thought it might be good to :bump2: this since it's been about a month since anyone posted. I have noticed that this form has filled out nicely and was hoping some fresh eyes could add to it. As the weather gets better for detailing and new people are signing on, this can be a great resource/reminder for many.

Thanks for everyone's contributions thus far and happy detailing.

The spread sheet is coming along nicely! The things that I have had the pleasure of working on have been filled in but keep bumping this thread as I think it is important to have a starting point for types of paint. :)

I updated it tonight with Ferrari Rosso Rubino (Ruby Red Metallic). Did a 355 week before last with a friend, 1 of 1 in that color. Really soft that one was! Light touch with SIP and a LC orange flat, followed with 205 and black CCS and it was ready for cq.

Awesome! I've been looking for something like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cardaddy

I updated it tonight with Ferrari Rosso Rubino (Ruby Red Metallic). Did a 355 week before last with a friend, 1 of 1 in that color. Really soft that one was! Light touch with SIP and a LC orange flat, followed with 205 and black CCS and it was ready for cq.

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Lucky! Those exotics may just be one-offs. With their custom colors and even some manufactures building in small numbers, it may be difficult to track vs. mass produced makes and models. Any detailers who touch these types treat them with care, I'm sure.

Either way, thanks for sharing and adding to the list.

This will be a valuable tool for many!!

Bump

OP----- Add in Maserati

Hard CC not found a soft or medium one yet.

Compound------ Flex 3401 (5-6 setting), Meg's Microfiber cutting, Meg D300, Hydro Tech Blue, D300( will leave micro marring which will be taken out with final polish.

Polish----- Flex 3401 (3-4 setting) , Hydro Tech Orange, Rupes Diamond, or SF4000, 4500 ( takes out all micro marring from compounding stage, but typically Maserati Paint has bubbles in it from chemicals seeping out over time through the CC, which won't come out ever. (Can use Megs Microfiber Finishing pads, but will leave a tad bit of marring, if doing a Jewel stage then go for this pad, its quicker and helps remove a little extra) Megs Ultimate works well if used in conjunction with these others.

Jeweling---- Flex 3401 (2 setting), Black LC pad no cut at all, with Rupes Diamond

Maserati Front bumpers are typically best to have removed, and repainted due to the small curves, and small areas around the vents. (If done, remember Maserati Paint codes need to be tweaked due to plastic parts for Black (Nero) and the physical car panels vary slightly and need to match) Rear bumper can be polished normal.

Bump!

Bump! Bump!

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Originally Posted by whoRyou

Bump! Bump!

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What are you bumping for?

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Originally Posted by Rsurfer

What are you bumping for?

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I am bumping to see if there any updates.

Bumping this up after I found it and thought it was interesting and relevant.

The beauty of Autogeek/Autopia history, always finding great stuff.