is it absolutely necessary to do an ipa wipedown after polishing, and before apply sealant.
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is it absolutely necessary to do an ipa wipedown after polishing, and before apply sealant.
you could probably skip it but why. it is easy and full proof and only takes about 5 minutes. i know i miss spots all the time removing polish and this just makes me feel better. my 2 cents worth
Doing an IPA wipe down will give you a true reading of the finish. It will remove any fillers left behind by the polish. This will allow you to see the true level of correction that you achieved. Also it will remove the oils left behind by the polish to ensure a better bond between your paint and your LSP.Quote:
Originally Posted by molarman
Just a warning... recently when doing a test spot I was doing an IPA wipe-down to check the results and some of the Isopropyl Alcohol penetrated under the painter's tape and dwelled while I continued to do some testing. (I had placed a single strip of painter's tape to better show before and after results).
Later when I removed the painter's tape there were two places that the clear paint wrinkled.
This really surprised me as this was a factory clear finish and I was under the assumption that IPA wouldn't cause any harm to the paint.
Luckily, I was able to undo the damage but I wasn't a big fan of doing IPA wipe-downs in the past and I'm even less of a fan now.
So be careful...
:)
Don't you agree that using a solvent of some sort is a great way to make sure your work is what you think it it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
Oh, and that is whacky, I have never experienced something like that glad it happened to you instead of me....no offense.
Of course it's a good idea to at least check the results of your test spot, (I've been teaching people to do test spots since about 1993 or 1994, when I first started posting to the Internet). I think if you prove your system in your test spot and then duplicate the same process over the rest of the car you should be getting the same results. People can decide for themselves what works best for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_Brice
I've used Mineral Spirits or an APC and never had any problems.
All I'm doing is "sharing" what I saw and experienced, everyone reading this can take from it what they will.
:)
I'm not judging you, just asking :)
Didn't think you were. I tend to type for a very wide audience, including lurkers...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_Brice
The problem of the clear paint softening and wrinkling could have been caused by simply dwelling on the surface or it could have been a chemical reaction of the alcohol and the adhesive, I don't know but I thought I would share this so others could be cautious.
:)
Thank you for sharing this Mike! I have never heard of this being a problem before, nor have I ever had an issue with IPA wipe downs... How were you able to undo the damage? Also when you use APC to check your work, what is your process? (i.e. What is the dilution ratio, and do you just spray it on from a hand sprayer and wipe it off like doing an IPA wipedown?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
I tend to have trouble getting the IPA to come off completely with 1-2 wipes, so I generally spray the IPA onto a towel, wipe, then take another towel and wipe so I can get a clear look at the correction. I have found this works better for me rather than spraying the IPA directly onto the paint.
I have never heard of or seen this happen before either that's why it surprised me.Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK HORSE
Very carefully by hand using M105 and a foam applicator pad.Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK HORSE
I use MS more than anything because I like how it wipes off. APC's tend to make the paint look smeary like IPA and you have to wipe more to get clear, no smear finish. If I use an APC I will spray it on and wipe it off using a microfiber towel.Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK HORSE
I don't know the dilution levels for other APC's only Meguiar's as I had to get this from Jason Rose accuracy reasons... You can use either APC or APC+ to remove or strip car waxes and paint sealants from your car's paint. This is technically for what's called de-waxing but the same principals apply to removing any unwanted film or residual polshing oils off the surface for inspection.
64:1 For a regular car wax type products
20:1 For hi-tech polymer type products
It's also recommended to chemically strip paint before damp-sanding to insure not chemicals sand off and load-up or contaminate your paper or discs.
It's a good idea to test any product on any coating if you've never worked on it before and you're unfamiliar with it.
:)
Thanks for the input and quick response Mike!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
Sorry for the newb question, but what is the purpose of the polish and why do they put oils in the polish if all one does right afterwards is clean it off? I guess some polishes have very mild correction ability, and one could use it for this, but otherwise, when would you use polish? The oils and fillers in the polish will help the paint look good, but then we are talking about removing all of it anyway, so I am not sure what the polish application will accomplish.
I have some polishes at home, and I would like to use them, but I am not sure when I really need to use them. Often I am strapped for time with the detail, so after washing, +/- claying, +/- using swirl remover or other similar correcting substance, I may go straight to the LSP. The paint seems to look great with this process. The polish ends up getting skipped. I would like to incorporate it, but I am not sure how or when.
BTW, the family cars are the main ones that I detail - 2004 Honda Pilot and 2008 Acura TL-S.
Thanks to all.
-Al
mike, thanks for the quick reply. it seems that as long as u follow the steps recommended and do a test spot initially, then the final finish will look much better, esp. for most of us who are not professional detailers nor have show cars.
Great question.... how's this for an answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1515
Polishing paint is an art form
(You can quote me on that)
Oils lubricate the surface, something I tell people all the time is that when detailing a car, you're not just GRINDING ON THE PAINT. You're trying to create beauty.
Paint and especially clear coat paints are thin, delicate coatings that are easily scratched and dulled and once scratched and dulled will require the right products, pads, tools and techniques PLUS the human elements of care and passion to restore to a crystal clear, high gloss finish.
Certain oils can also do other things, check out this article,
The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints
Look for the text above and below this picture...
http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...ryAction02.jpg
But the above is the short answer... the oils lubricate the surface and cushion or buffer the abrading effect of the abrasives. Otherwise you would simply scour the finish.
I've seen people for YEARS refer to oils and fillers and while some oils may fill, in a professional quality product the purpose of the oil in any abrading product is to lubricate the surface, not merely to fill.
This is a horrible analogy but here goes... how long would the engine in your car run if you removed the lubricating oil and replaced the oil with water?
Here's an experiment, get some abrasives, mix them with water, pour some on a clear coat finish machine buff the paint.
Also, water-based doesn't mean oil-free and oil-based doesn't mean water-free.
Lubricating oils are a good thing...
Good questions.
:)
Man Mike, I don't envy the forum part of the job you have. You do a great job of answering many questions, kudo's are you on call with a forum beeper as well?
Thanks for sharing that caution Mike!
I don't IPA the whole car. Something about alcohol on my paint just doesn't make me feel great. I do IPA a few times on the test spot and first couple sections of the hood.
After getting the whole car right I clean the paint with a paint cleanser type product before sealing. Of course the IPA would actually be easier...
What do you guys think about ONR wipedown instead of alcohol? Not strong enough to remove the oils?
Spidy senses... runs in the family...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_Brice
http://www.showcargarage.com/gallery...estheJoker.jpg
I just tried a sample of Griot's Pre-wax Cleaner. It is citrus based (smells like oranges). It did seem easier to remove (felt better) than using IPA. I have no way to compare to effectiveness but I think I used less in the end.
I thought about buying this myself. I wonder if this also leaves behind some sort of residue even after wiping? :laughing: Gotta love detailing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunky
I have no direct detailing knowledge of comparing the reactivity, safety, or "harshness" or IPA and mineral spirits on clear coat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
However, from a chemistry perspective I would be more worried about mineral spirits as a solvent than isopropyl alchohol. Due to its structure, IPA is even more unreactive that ethyl alcohol/ethanol (common alcohol), or methanol is. With that said it is hard to compare the reactivity of IPA with clear coat without knowing the chemistry of the clear coat paint, which I don't.
After reading this I am going to be careful with both.
The Griot's is never going to the lowest cost product to use but I did like the "feel" better than IPA.Quote:
Originally Posted by kronos
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ng-fuzion.html
See page 4 of this thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by dnadrifter
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...23225-ipa.html
That's a great "best practice" for everyone...Quote:
Originally Posted by dnadrifter
:xyxthumbs:
Sorry to bump this old thread but would like to share similar experience I had as a warning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
The case was different though. I was doing a minor but deep scratch repair on my car and I had used masking tape to cover outer area. I sprayed the paint then a lilFinishing Solvent Spray as the per the paint manufacturers instruction. Later after the paint dried, I remove the masking tape but damn, paint was wrinkled. :(
Fortunately the damage area was small but still can be seen.
I had used the same products few times before and it never harmed the paint but I didn't used masking tap before.
So I too believe its chemical reaction between masking tap or its adhesive.
WARNING AGAIN: Becare full when using cleaning chemicals + adhesives
Thanks...
Best Regards
I appreciate this is a very old question however I do think there is some validity in using ONR or maybe other similar products. For quite a while I had been using ONR to clean up the kitchen hob. As long as the dirt and oils were quite light the ONR had no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by CEE DOG
This made me think if ONR can remove light oil from a hob then it might be able to remove polishing oils. So, I tried smearing some polish (Menz Power Gloss) on a glass mirror and tried different things to remove all traces of the oil. IPA worked well if given a few seconds to dwell but so did ONR. The biggest difference is IPA left a very slight haze although this was very easily removed and possibly indicated the dilution mixture was a bit high. No such problems with the ONR.
Obviously using a mirror is not a true analogue of paint but it did show a rinseless product can remove light oils. Maybe if someone is going to use a coating then something stronger maybe be required
Of course, it would have been better to respond to this two years ago but timing was never my strong point
i think if you use something like show car glaze like i do before waxing you want the oils to penetrate preferably overnight. an ipa wipe down after that would defeat the purpose for me. im just here researching paint chip repair
Thank you for your great advice Mike. I do have a question, what does MS stand for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Autogeekonline mobile app
I believe Mike is a fan of Mineral Spirits.
Ahh thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincwelch
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Autogeekonline mobile app
[QUOTE=DETAILROOKIE;1482759]Ahh thank you!
So do you use the mineral spirits full-strength or is there a dilution required? If so, what dilution?
HI Mike,
For MS..........do you just do a small section at a time - spray and wipe off? Out of sunlight? or in the shade? I have never used that on paint on my car, so just want to make sure of the process that you use? I plan to apply Mequairs Poly Sealant, then waxing...........why I am asking. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradycat
Hi bradycat,
IF I were to chemically strip paint using Mineral Spirits before sealing the paint I would work a manageable section at a time, that's no larger than 2' by 2' because the product will try to evaporate before you can wipe it if you do any larger section.
And yes, do it out of direct sunlight as heat from sun will force any product to evaporate faster than no heat from the sun, so yeah... in shade or in a garage.
MOST IMPORTANT - you don't need to chemically strip paint before applying most waxes and synthetic sealants UNLESS the manufacturer tells you do do this.
If you look at the directions for Meguiar's M21 Polymer Sealant, it does NOT direct you to chemically strip the paint before using the product.
This is a bunch of mis-information shared all over the Internet by people that probably mean well but are not chemists.
:)
Also...
Read my article on this topic here, I invested a little time to do the research and then share the inforamation to help people understnad why they DON'T have to chemcially strip paint before using waxes and sealants.
This is UNLIKE what most people do, (research and investing time writing), which is just just repeat what they read, i.e. tell others they need to chemically strip their paint before using a wax or sealant.
Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding
As I often say on this forum...
Don't take something really very simple and turn it into rocket science.
:)
Hello Mike,Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
I appreciate your reply, and your knowledge on the topic. I just ordered Mequiar's Mirror Glaze # 20 polymer sealant from Autogeek :)
I was trying to look for instructions on the product online, but couldn't find anything, but if that is what you found on #21, I am guessing it will be the same on #20.
I am new to auto detailing and this is my first time to use a sealant and wanted to question the IPA or if it's needed, as I am getting confused by reading and watching videos on what to do.
I responded last nite to one of your threads, regarding how you give your expert advise, and some still question you. I would take your advise over someone who doesn't have your mastery of car detailing. Thank you for replying, and gotta say your website Autogeek rocks.:xyxthumbs:
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradycat
For the majority or car waxes and synthetic sealants on the market today and in the past, after doing any normal prep work, be it a simple wash and dry or a complex compound and polishing process, after you've finished these step you can go straight to the wax or sealant without chemically stripping the paint.
In fact - without super clean and high quality microfiber towels and a gentle touch, chances are good most people are inducing marring into their car's paint when they chemcially strip it or in other words wipe the paint down with a microfiber towel and some form of solvent that is NOT a great lubricant to start with.
Of course you won't see the marring on light colored cars, just dark and black colored cars, but if it's happending to dark colored cars chances are high it's happening to ALL colors of cars it's just the human eye cannot see the marring taking place.
M20 Polymer Sealatn is a great product. I used it, no counted on it for years when I detailed cars professionally full time. This was before the Internet and thus before hundreds of new brands of products that have popped up all over the place due to the fact the Internet made it possible for anyone to launch a product without the need for the traditional retail marketing avenue.
It has some light cleaning action so it is not a considered a pure sealant, but for most people and most cars, (most cars are daily drivers), then it is the perfect product as it will clean or remove any built-up road film as you apply it thus creating a more clear or more beautiful finish.
After applying it, allow it to fully dry and you will find it wipes off SUPER easy and leaves the paint very slick and slippery.
I would suggest moving forward to start a new and dedicated thread for your detailing questions instead of tagging them onto this established thread.
There is never anything wrong with reviving an old thread but because you have great questions, a better use of your time and my typing time would be share these questions, comments and answers in a thread that started with a title like,
Necessary to use IPA before a sealant?
Or
Tips for using Meguiar's M20 Polymer Sealant
:)
I am new to auto detailing and this is my first time to use a sealant and wanted to question the IPA or if it's needed, as I am getting confused by reading and watching videos on what to do.
I responded last nite to one of your threads, regarding how you give your expert advise, and some still question you. I would take your advise over someone who doesn't have your mastery of car detailing. Thank you for replying, and gotta say your website Autogeek rocks.:xyxthumbs:[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by howardm4
No.
I realize you asked this question 1 year ago but while I'm here thought I would answer you.
:)