Pictures & Comments from October 4th, 2009 Sunday Detailing 102 - Advanced Class

[bullitt21]

I think that's a great idea to have smaller specialized classes. I would definitely pay for it. I believe these classes can definitely help even the most salty pro's hone in their skills even more and stay up to date on the newest technologies. I'm planning a trip out there this spring and can't wait to stop by for the first time.

[Rick434]

Besides the water/electricity issue, the stroke for air powered DA sanders is much smaller or shorter than the stroke or orbit for polishers like the PC, Griot's and G110

When sanding automotive paints you want to use a finishing sander, with a small stroke or orbit.

IM not sure why this wasnt told to me when i specifically asked what was the difference between the two methods on this past sundays class, maybe the fact that somebody got a little greedy and WAY overbooked the class to 30 people when it should have been 15 MAX and the instructor had no time to explain answers fully and demonstrate both methods. wasnt too happy sunday when i showed up and 30 people were there. Complete chaos compounds flying everywhere instructor running from one panel to the next trying to help everyone it was basically just try to figure it out for yourself, not the instructors fault just somebody booked way to many people for the class and if that is going to become a trend I would not recommend going to the advanced class. Dont get me wrong it was a good class and i still learned new things, but when i come home and see how smoothly things should go when the correct amount of people are booked for the class , and both methods air and electric sanding are shown, it makes me feel cheated.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm not sure why this wasn't told to me when i specifically asked what was the difference between the two methods on this past Sundays class,

My apology, I tried my hardest to answer everyone's questions, with real world, detailed answers, I didn't realize I missed your question till you posted it today.

Here's the answer,

The difference between an air DA Sander and an electric DA Sander besides one powered by air and the other powered by electricity is primarily the orbit or stroke size of the oscillating action.

Air DA Sanders are typically either,

3/16” Orbit = Aggressive Sanding
3/32” Orbit = Finish Sanding



Electric DA polishers = 5/16” Orbit

This includes all of these popular electric DA Sanders.

- Porter Cable 7424XP
- Meguiar’s G110v2
- Griot’s Garage ROP
- Porter Cable 7424 and 7336
- Meguiar’s G100 and G220


The larger the stroke, generally speaking the more aggressive the cutting action or the more potential for aggressive cutting action, other factors are involved but generally speaking, a larger orbit will provide more aggressive sanding action.

Besides that, as I stated in the class, the Meguiar's Unigrit discs were designed for a 5/16" stroke, I've used them with Air DA Sanders and while I have not done any comparison testing, the Meguiar's Unigrit discs work well with both air and electric DA machines.

maybe the fact that somebody got a little greedy and WAY overbooked the class to 30 people when it should have been 15 MAX

Gosh Rick, it wasn't done on purpose, in the future we'll modify how people sign-up through the store for more accurate accounting.

One thing for sure, once everyone had arrived, my job was to do my best to make sure everyone had a good experience and the feedback I received from everyone I personally spoke with was overwhelmingly positive.

and the instructor had no time to explain answers fully and demonstrate both methods.

I stated in the beginning of the power point presentation that would only be using the electric DA's for the machine dampsanding in the class.

We have an air compressor but people new to machine sanding tend to struggle with the stiffness of the air line and keeping the sanding disc flat to the surface, because both types of sanding do a great job. Also the Compressor is in another room and using the air DA's at this time means running the lines under the garage door and it can cause a trip hazard. I also covered the stiffness of the air line issue in the power point presentation.

Complete chaos compounds flying everywhere instructor running from one panel to the next trying to help everyone it was basically just try to figure it out for yourself, not the instructors fault just somebody booked way to many people for the class and if that is going to become a trend I would not recommend going to the advanced class.

Just to note, when people are new to using a rotary buffer, it's normal for splatter to fly off the buffing pad as it takes practice to pick up your bead of product using the 10 @ 10 Technique. This is what the class is about, introducing people to advanced techniques and providing them the opportunity to "practice"

Remember, at the very beginning of the class I stated very clearly that the goal of the class was not to make everyone an expert and sanding and using a rotary buffer, that comes with experience and experience is gained over time with practice.

The goal is the same goal we strived for at Meguiar's and that is to bring up your comfort level using the tools and to provide education so that everyone can talk about these topics with a good understanding of the tools, products and procedures.

I asked the entire class at least a couple of times if everyone felt comfortable with using the tools and products and if everyone thought they could hold an intelligent conversation over the topics taught and everyone that observed said "Yes".

Don't get me wrong it was a good class and i still learned new things,

This is just an overview because I went into depth on all of the below topics...

• How to prepare sandpaper for sanding
• How to prepare paint for sanding
• How to hand sand
• How to machine sand
• How to use a rotary buffer, wool pad and a cutting compound to remove sanding marks
• How to use a rotary buffer, foam pad and a polish to remove wool pad swirls
• How to use a DA Polisher to insure all swirls are removed
• How to use a DA Polisher to seal the paint with a coat of wax or a paint sealant
• Wiping techniques through each procedure
• How to clean a pad on the fly
• How to clean a pad using a nylon brush
• How to clean a pad using a Spur
• How to clean a pad using a Pad Washer
• How to use a Paint Thickness Gauge
• How to tape-off and protect raised body lines

Again that's just a summary of everything we went over, I'm known more for going really in-depth in my classes and in my articles, not skimping on information...

but when i come home and see how smoothly things should go when the correct amount of people are booked for the class , and both methods air and electric sanding are shown, it makes me feel cheated.

I'll have someone from Customer Care contact you to see if there's anything we can do to turn this into a Win/Win deal.

Thank you for your feedback...

It's posted to the wrong thread as I have not created the thread for the class that we held on Sunday, September 19th, 2010 yet... but after I hit the [Submit Reply] button I will created it with lots of pictures hopefully showing lots of hand-on training with a fun group of people.

[JohnHenry]

That was a professionally written, politically correct response from Mike. We expect no less.

My response... Are you serious?! Mike was gracious enough to point out that the class had been inadvertently overbooked. Otherwise, I would not have had a clue that anything was amiss.

The facility was more than adequate, actually comfortable. The audio-visual material was of the highest caliber. The pace was excellent. The instructor is acknowledged as one of the premier subject matter experts in the world.

Mike took great pains, I thought, to stop at appropriate intervals, and ask: 1) if anyone had any questions, 2) if everyone had tried each piece of equipment (I even asked to use a buffer that was not planned as part of the class.), and 3) if everyone had a chance to use every product they wanted to try.

There was plenty of time to have asked extra questions, discussed any points of confusion, or corrected any misunderstanding. I know that Mike was planning additional buffing practice as I left at the end of Sunday's class.

I am flabergasted by your comments. I initially thought "Were we at the same class?!"

I'm sorry that you were disappointed, Rick. I know that Autogeek will make it right.

[Meghan]

Well that was news to me, everyone I talked to really enjoyed Sundays class and all stated they learned a lot. I guess it just depends on the individual, you have to get involved and ask questions. If there is one think Mike is great at is answering everyone's questions. But at Autogeek for someone to feel cheated is NOT our way, so I will get you a full refund tomorrow, please contact me with your name or order number.

[Harleyguy]

Also don't forget your not going to learn everything there is too know is such a short time frame.Everyone at AG goes way above the normal to make everyone happy.How do you expect to learn wet sanding in a few hours when it takes years to learn.

Maybe you should sign up for another class .

[Rick434]

Mike I would like to apologize for giving a false characterization of what I experienced. While the class was full I still feel that everyone got a good and equal hands on experience and you did a great job of instructing the large class. Also how I came across in my post was more of being in a bad mood from a flight home in between two kids and a screaming baby behind me (which is no excuse to go online a bash) but I did blow things out of proportion in my earlier post and was very pleased with all the things I learned both Saturday and Sunday and i look forward to putting my new skills to the test in the near future

[Mike Phillips]

i look forward to putting my new skills to the test in the near future

And that's what it's all about... learning and then taking what you've learned and putting it into practice...


It's all good...