"Hellaflush" / Slammed Cars Banned in Quebec

[David Hayward]

lowering and getting wider wheel's can actually improve the car, these are 2 very uneducated statements



what's the point of having a car taken to a show if you can't drive it?

Lower and wider is good but these "Hella flush" guys are going wider wheel narrower tire. Like a 215 width on a 10 inch wide wheel. That is not safe. They need special tools just to get the bead of the tire to grab the wheel. And they are riding the corner of the tire not using air ride. You can't tell me this is safe or enhances anything can you?

http://cambergang.com/blogs/news/143...s-static-honda

[David Hayward]

He has a 205 tire on 10 inch wide wheels and 215 on an 11 inch wide.

[David Hayward]

Alot of these guys aren't using race car 10 grand plus suspensions. They buy 300 dollar Raceland coilovers pull out the helper and spring perches and then bottom them out.


I'm into low cars and handling and custom stuff. If you want to park super low bag the car. Just don't do unsafe things static.

[KMdef9]

what's the point of having a car taken to a show if you can't drive it?

Never been to any big shows huh? People will trailer their cars to prevent road grime, risk of accident and not to put on miles on them. People who trailer their cars typically have the high end/rare stuff and/or take better care than most. I wouldn't want a car like that myself, but that's what they do.

Correct as it lowers the center of gravity and wider track. Hence the design of many race cars.

Swanicyouth nailed it, if done correctly they will benefit from it. Problem is, they're lowering cars that aren't designed to be dropped that low. Some of those car I saw pictured won't have the jounce to handle proper corners. Yes, race cars are lowered, but not like these hellflush cars. And the whole design of the race car is redone.

As pointed out, most, of these people aren't replacing ALL of the suspension. Suspension isn't just spring/shocks/struts. It's sway bars, endlinks, torque arms, panhard bars, bushings even your vehicles frame. Most of these hellaflush people aren't replacing all of that. Let alone dialing it all in to work as one, like race car designs do.

They're buying budget cars and doing budget modifications, which can be very dangerous. Which is why I agree with the law alittle, but there's alot of grey area to it, and you'd have to put some of these vehicles through some test equipment to see if they were actually safe.

[Klasse Act]

Airbag systems are very reliable and handle very well. Today`s systems even allow you to retain the front sway bar.

My car:



I have an alignment done at cruising height and my car actually handles better than most "sport" cars on the road. It even puts them in the rearview mirror, though thats for another thread.

You can clearly see this car is the exception rather than the norm.

Lots of good info here in this thread, too bad those whom need to read it are too "HellaDope", LOL!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

[Calendyr]

This video is in response to Mike's post. But I am sure that the problems for lowered vehicles also apply...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzl8k9S4k8

[Skimmer0220]

You have to throw each vehicle up on an alignment rack to check the alignment angles conclusively. If the camber has changed negatively a few degrees - it may be hard to spot via the eye - certainly close to impossible to spot in photos. However, rest assured it will still cause uneven tire wear, possible pulling to one side (if camber varies > 1/2 degree or so), and impact toe if the alignment is not corrected.

Obviously, the camber on those cars you choose may not be as negative as some. But, lowering a vehicle and inch or two will usually cause camber to go more negative.

I hope your not saying something that looks like this:



will handle decently?

So your telling me a officer would pull them over, take them to a shop, make them get on a lift, have an alignment dohicky put on the car and see if it was off by a degree?

No I'm not saying it will handle decently because I have never rode in the car, for all I know it could handle better then my car or totally worse, what I'm saying is that it has no camber and his still hella flush

Lower and wider is good but these "Hella flush" guys are going wider wheel narrower tire. Like a 215 width on a 10 inch wide wheel. That is not safe. They need special tools just to get the bead of the tire to grab the wheel. And they are riding the corner of the tire not using air ride. You can't tell me this is safe or enhances anything can you?

Matt Clark's Static Honda – CamberGang

not all of them but the majority of them are stretching tires

Never been to any big shows huh? People will trailer their cars to prevent road grime, risk of accident and not to put on miles on them. People who trailer their cars typically have the high end/rare stuff and/or take better care than most. I wouldn't want a car like that myself, but that's what they do.



Swanicyouth nailed it, if done correctly they will benefit from it. Problem is, they're lowering cars that aren't designed to be dropped that low. Some of those car I saw pictured won't have the jounce to handle proper corners. Yes, race cars are lowered, but not like these hellflush cars. And the whole design of the race car is redone.

As pointed out, most, of these people aren't replacing ALL of the suspension. Suspension isn't just spring/shocks/struts. It's sway bars, endlinks, torque arms, panhard bars, bushings even your vehicles frame. Most of these hellaflush people aren't replacing all of that. Let alone dialing it all in to work as one, like race car designs do.

They're buying budget cars and doing budget modifications, which can be very dangerous. Which is why I agree with the law alittle, but there's alot of grey area to it, and you'd have to put some of these vehicles through some test equipment to see if they were actually safe.

Yes I've been to a bunch of big shows and well I walk right past the car's that are trucked in because there more of a couple thousand pound paperweights

Alot of these guys aren't using race car 10 grand plus suspensions. They buy 300 dollar Raceland coilovers pull out the helper and spring perches and then bottom them out.


I'm into low cars and handling and custom stuff. If you want to park super low bag the car. Just don't do unsafe things static.

couldn't agree more that's why when I lowered mine I changed every bushing in the car because 1 it was 100k old and 2 I didn't want something as cheap as a bushing killing my handling

[S2K]

You have to throw each vehicle up on an alignment rack to check the alignment angles conclusively. If the camber has changed negatively a few degrees - it may be hard to spot via the eye - certainly close to impossible to spot in photos. However, rest assured it will still cause uneven tire wear, possible pulling to one side (if camber varies > 1/2 degree or so), and impact toe if the alignment is not corrected.

So you are saying that 1/2 degree of camber will cause a car to pull?
I've never seen camber cause a pull, caster is what will cause a pull.
The factory alignment specs for my car give a +/- factor of 3/4 degree camber.

So I haven't seen anyone comment on changing the offset of wheels over the factory wheel.
My cars factory wheels are sucked 1 3/4" in from the edge of the fenderwell and it looks terrible. I have wheels on order with less offset that will put them flush with the fenderwell giving me a wider track and absolutely no rubbing with factory alignment specs. I just don't see why that should be illegal.

[swanicyouth]

So you are saying that 1/2 degree of camber will cause a car to pull?
I've never seen camber cause a pull, caster is what will cause a pull.
The factory alignment specs for my car give a +/- factor of 3/4 degree camber.

So I haven't seen anyone comment on changing the offset of wheels over the factory wheel.
My cars factory wheels are sucked 1 3/4" in from the edge of the fenderwell and it looks terrible. I have wheels on order with less offset that will put them flush with the fenderwell giving me a wider track and absolutely no rubbing with factory alignment specs. I just don't see why that should be illegal.

Maybe you haven't taken Hunter's suspension and alignment classes, but I have. The industry standard for the difference when you start considering adjustment is 1/2°. It's the difference between side to side that can cause a pull.

Caster differences can also make a car pull. The car will pull to the side of more negative caster. Again, it's the DIFFERENCE between each side that causes the pull. However, when one alignment angle (or ride height) is altered to a significant degree, it can effect the angles on each specific side - not necessarily in an even manner.

Changes in camber can also affect caster causing the car not to handle as well as designed or make the steering feel twitchy or slow (depending if the caster is too negative or positive). Lowering can also stress or change the load on control arm bushings and other suspension bushings - causing them to wear which can affect ALL the alignment geometry.

Generally, and it's been a while since I've been wrenching on cars for $, but - whenever I pulled a car on the rack that had the suspension "altered" to a significant degree - the standing alignment was a wreck.

Caster and camber are not adjustable on all cars on all axles (fixed rear has no caster). So, modifying certain aspects of the suspension can change any angle in an often unpredictable and unsymmetrical manner and correction may not be even possible or cost effective.

These are what we used to call "set the toe and let it go" - because often caster/camber was wacked on these cars (one side or both - or just rear camber/toe) and one or both of the angles may not have offered factory adjustments. In some cases aftermarket adjustments are available, but once the suspension is modified to a significant degree - it's hard to predict if even with the factory specs the tires still roll down the road with the correct alignment geometry.

That is why cars are engineered with certain tire sizes, certain types of bushings, and certain alignment specs. The manufacturer has a significant interest invested to test these things and make sure it all works together with the proper blend of handling, safety, and tire wear. Of course slightly modifying one aspect likely won't cause a major problem. But, slight modification is not what I would call "Hellaflush" - the topic of this thread.

While I can't speak for any other car (I used to work for Ford, but know a lot more about modern BMWs); it's a pretty well accepted notion that a little bit of drop probably won't hurt much. However, when you add a LOT OF drop, combined with bigger wheels with larger offsets (or spacers), AND add super low profile tires to compensate for the huge diameter wheels - most BMWs handle like crap - and camber goes negative. To what extent and on what side is anyone's guess.

To be honest, most coil overs are crap as well. The ease of adjusting the ride height is sacrificed for a pretty harsh ride. There are some good coil overs out there - but most cost $$$$.

But, it seems most people into "lowering" and "Hellaflush" are more concerned with a certain look than any of this - which is fine. But, please don't think you have more resources, education, experience, and testing ability than the team of engineers that designed your car's suspension and alignment geometry.

[Skimmer0220]

Why do super cars have such big tires if the smaller narrower ones are fine? Some cars are made for economical reasons, the tires on my chevy 6" wide but the tires on my jetta are 8" and well the jetta handles much better and they don't have camber or rub

Yes most coils are cheap but you can't speak for the entire scene having cheap coils