I ask the people...is this offensive?

[Hazcat]

I wouldn't wear the shirt. It's what America is about . . . freedom of speech. We don't have to agree but we have the right to our opinion. It would be impossible to list everything that offended others. I use the rule of thirds and it goes like this. A third will dislike it intensely, a third won't mind it at all, and a third will have no opinion. That's America . . . you can shout your opinion from the roof tops, put it in print, but eventually it will fade away under a new controversy because the next on is right around the corner. It's amazing how much time, money, and energy people will spend on a topic like this yet not give child or elder abuse a second thought (just one example among many that I deem more important). I respect others opinion to disagree even if they're wrong. ;P

[Dr_Pain]

I wouldn't wear the shirt. It's what America is about . . . freedom of speech. We don't have to agree but we have the right to our opinion. It would be impossible to list everything that offended others. I use the rule of thirds and it goes like this. A third will dislike it intensely, a third won't mind it at all, and a third will have no opinion. That's America . . . you can shout your opinion from the roof tops, put it in print, but eventually it will fade away under a new controversy because the next on is right around the corner. It's amazing how much time, money, and energy people will spend on a topic like this yet not give child or elder abuse a second thought (just one example among many that I deem more important). I respect others opinion to disagree even if they're wrong. ;P

Here comes another one of my opinions....

Although I appreciate yours stance on bringing the First Amendment to the argument, I will have to state (not just my opinion) that there are major flaws in today's logic or validation of the permissive and pervasive ways it is used in arguing a point.

With rights comes responsibilities, and I promise you that the values and the moral standards of our forefather (while drafting this very important constitutional right) did play a major role. If you look at the LAWS (some of which are still on the books today) which were enacted after the signing of the constitution you will see many that exemplify a standards of decency, pride and general moral values which is forgotten today. We still have laws against public swearing, spitting in the street and preventing certain pervasive dressing attire. If this would have been an affront to the constitution those laws would have been ratified off the books a long time ago. Unfortunately, the First Amendment is been distorted every day to suit our selfish desire, and to validate what ever whims suits us (without regard for anyone else or its negative social impacts).

We could debate free speech till the cows come home and from a legalistic standpoint you may be able to prove your point, however if you humanize the argument and speak of the moral standard which serves the mass and serve to improve a society, then you can see that the argument for a "society" should have implications that benefit the mass over just benefiting you. If we were on the right track, why is it that our standards regarding exploitation for sinful benefits have been rapidly declining (ie. glutony, sexual perversions, language bastardization........and the list goes on!!)?? Prime example will be this weekend's SuperBowl event. If we all remove our self centered, pleasure seeking glasses we will see a level of sexualization, excesses (food, drink etc..) that should not be acceptable in a civilized society but that has become "the norm" because it is tradition. We just choose to brush off the associated fights, destruction of property etc.. that will ensue (either from the winning team and/or from the losing team) claiming that it is part of the event. Should we just excuse this barbaric expression of joy or sadness because they have a constitutional right to express themselves? What if I were to express my discontent with Washington and chose to burn the flag, would I receive the same ability to express my anger under the Constitution? Legalistically, I will.... but it is not because I can.... that I should!

[Klasse Act]

Dr. Pain and Hazcat, you guys are bringing up great points for sure, and to think I only brought this up because a fellow member didn't like me misspelling Murica and Merica, how would've thunk it, yeah, I said thunk it

Without naming any names so I don't get into any more trouble, I also tend to use the term "autotragic" when referring to perf cars w/ 2 pedals and this is also a misspelling that has brought me grief. Now, just to be clear, if you have a disability and NEED the auto, I understand but any other reason is weak IMO, sports cars have always had 3 pedals, no place in the world for "autotragics" just because they're "faster", who cares, its all about the experience to me, its a sports car afterall. Sure muscle cars had both but really, the chrome Hurst shifter w/ cue-ball shiftknob shaking in your hand, there's NO replacing that.

So if you guys wanna comment on the above, feel free or continue the Murica or Merica stuff.

[Ted S.]

The fact that there are 'Muricans' who are getting all butthurt about something so subjective and trivial propounds that perhaps 'Murica' isn't what it used to be.

[Klasse Act]

The fact that there are 'Muricans' who are getting all butthurt about something so subjective and trivial propounds that perhaps 'Murica' isn't what it used to be.

Good point Ted!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

[Dr_Pain]

Dr. Pain and Hazcat, you guys are bringing up great points for sure, and to think I only brought this up because a fellow member didn't like me misspelling Murica and Merica, how would've thunk it, yeah, I said thunk it

Without naming any names so I don't get into any more trouble, I also tend to use the term "autotragic" when referring to perf cars w/ 2 pedals and this is also a misspelling that has brought me grief. Now, just to be clear, if you have a disability and NEED the auto, I understand but any other reason is weak IMO, sports cars have always had 3 pedals, no place in the world for "autotragics" just because they're "faster", who cares, its all about the experience to me, its a sports car afterall. Sure muscle cars had both but really, the chrome Hurst shifter w/ cue-ball shiftknob shaking in your hand, there's NO replacing that.

So if you guys wanna comment on the above, feel free or continue the Murica or Merica stuff.

I know we can go into some profound philosophical discussions on acceptability (or not) of one word versus another however it would be a very lengthy conversation that most would not be willing to participate it. This lack of enthusiasm to participate may be due to the fact that it is not there "thing", or because they fear repercussion for their opinions, or because there are no true answers and they feel it is a waste of time or because.....

In the example you provided above, you have to judge the intent, delivery and reception of the word or message. If you fail at any point, then you essentially fail the process. We should work to improve ourselves and uplift one another so when evaluating the "autotragic" are you accomplishing both, either or none. Yes it may be true to you that a sports car should have 3 pedals but what off the person that can't drive stick? Do he feel uplifted by your labeling? Does it serve to motivate him to be associated with a transmission that should be reserved for the handicapped or disabled? Did it make you a better person to use a word that makes you laugh while potentially offending someone else? For the like minded this is a funny label, but you can appreciate that the intent in the matter were self oriented (funny to you, and representing your ideology of a sports car), the delivery was selfish (because you have a constitutional to express what ever is on your mind), and the reception (at least for the person offended) was off the mark. Could some bystander hear your comment and easily extrapolate other negative ideology from you, such as a position that BMW dual action clutches are for sissies, or that Ferrari's paddle shifters are for uncoordinated sports car wannabes etc... Don't get me wrong, I do have certain PREFERENCES for my sports cars but no hard nose positions which may interfere with my abilities to enjoy them or have other enjoy them as well.

I do agree with a previous post describing the 30/30/30 (although I think the current statistics may be a little skewed from such a clean up representation). My question is: "Does the fact that we live in a society represented above excuse our obligations to make it better?". It would be a huge cope out for me to just decide one day to revert back to dropping f-bombs just because it seems more effective and less time consuming then having a rational conversation? I think you can agree with me that the f-bomb in my previous example could be construed as a bullying tactic. Foul language use to be hugely frowned upon (a few years ago), and a sign of de-evolution, but being that the media, movie actors, high ranking people of industries are using it (or expose us to it), we become desensitized and therefore tolerate it... and all of a sudden we wonder why we have 5 year olds with potty mouth that grow up to influence the next generation in the same, and slowly gradually our societal standing start declining in the eye of the rest of the world. Regardless of our desensitization, foul language will never be viewed as an "improvement".

If you did not like my f-bomb example, I could give you the same argument about pornography. It also use to be hugely frown upon and a sinful behavior which lead to the break up of many marriages etc.. Things haven't changed regardless of the fact that we have been so desensitized by the constant bombardment of sexuality in advertising etc... And the fact that close to 40% of the internet is porn speaks volume as to its presence in our lives. Did this improve our marriage statistics or did it create a false impression for the mass as to what should be happening behind closed doors? Actually to the contrary, it improved our divorce stats because we believe there is bigger, better, greater just around the corner.

I could go on and on.... but the message remains the same. We are not improving but regressing. We are not evolving as a society but fronting and other countries are taking notice.

[Paul Mitchell]

I know we can go into some profound philosophical discussions on acceptability (or not) of one word versus another however it would be a very lengthy conversation that most would not be willing to participate it. This lack of enthusiasm to participate may be due to the fact that it is not there "thing", or because they fear repercussion for their opinions, or because there are no true answers and they feel it is a waste of time or because.....

In the example you provided above, you have to judge the intent, delivery and reception of the word or message. If you fail at any point, then you essentially fail the process. We should work to improve ourselves and uplift one another so when evaluating the "autotragic" are you accomplishing both, either or none. Yes it may be true to you that a sports car should have 3 pedals but what off the person that can't drive stick? Do he feel uplifted by your labeling? Does it serve to motivate him to be associated with a transmission that should be reserved for the handicapped or disabled? Did it make you a better person to use a word that makes you laugh while potentially offending someone else? For the like minded this is a funny label, but you can appreciate that the intent in the matter were self oriented (funny to you, and representing your ideology of a sports car), the delivery was selfish (because you have a constitutional to express what ever is on your mind), and the reception (at least for the person offended) was off the mark. Could some bystander hear your comment and easily extrapolate other negative ideology from you, such as a position that BMW dual action clutches are for sissies, or that Ferrari's paddle shifters are for uncoordinated sports car wannabes etc... Don't get me wrong, I do have certain PREFERENCES for my sports cars but no hard nose positions which may interfere with my abilities to enjoy them or have other enjoy them as well.

I do agree with a previous post describing the 30/30/30 (although I think the current statistics may be a little skewed from such a clean up representation). My question is: "Does the fact that we live in a society represented above excuse our obligations to make it better?". It would be a huge cope out for me to just decide one day to revert back to dropping f-bombs just because it seems more effective and less time consuming then having a rational conversation? I think you can agree with me that the f-bomb in my previous example could be construed as a bullying tactic. Foul language use to be hugely frowned upon (a few years ago), and a sign of de-evolution, but being that the media, movie actors, high ranking people of industries are using it (or expose us to it), we become desensitized and therefore tolerate it... and all of a sudden we wonder why we have 5 year olds with potty mouth that grow up to influence the next generation in the same, and slowly gradually our societal standing start declining in the eye of the rest of the world. Regardless of our desensitization, foul language will never be viewed as an "improvement".

If you did not like my f-bomb example, I could give you the same argument about pornography. It also use to be hugely frown upon and a sinful behavior which lead to the break up of many marriages etc.. Things haven't changed regardless of the fact that we have been so desensitized by the constant bombardment of sexuality in advertising etc... And the fact that close to 40% of the internet is porn speaks volume as to its presence in our lives. Did this improve our marriage statistics or did it create a false impression for the mass as to what should be happening behind closed doors? Actually to the contrary, it improved our divorce stats because we believe there is bigger, better, greater just around the corner.

I could go on and on.... but the message remains the same. We are not improving but regressing. We are not evolving as a society but fronting and other countries are taking notice.

Well said Claude. I have a 2010 Mustang GT with an automatic transmission. It's an automatic because my wife has severe arthritis and two artificial knees. I won't deprive her of having some fun driving this car because it's not "manly". We could take this even further - what about power steering, power brakes, back-up cameras, four wheel drive, etc?

I also agree with what Claude said about todays language and the blatant use of profanity. My teachers and parents always said if you had to use profanity to get your point across you were lacking a proper vocabulary. I'm no saint and I can swear with the best of them (four years in the military) but I won't in the presence of my wife, daughter, granddaughters or those people that would find it offensive. I also don't swear in mixed company or when I'm with people I don't know. To me, it's just a matter of common courtesy and respect.

To me, it's all part of the dumbing down of society. If aliens ever landed and spent a few hours watching reality TV and checking out social media sites they'd all leave since there appears to be no intelligent life here on this planet.

Back to the original issue. I wouldn't wear the shirt but I wouldn't care if somebody else did.

[longdx]

I have that shirt, so no.

[Klasse Act]

Like I said, if you actually need an auto, fine, no problem as I'm not a monster ( you didn't say or insinuate that either ) I'm also not trying to make myself feel better either its just I love driving a stick and can only imagine what it must be like in a performance car. Also, the transmission is going away and that's very sad IMO. Cars are so neutered nowadays, like these new DCT's, electric steering, etc takes the "feel" out of a car. Ever drive a 930 turbo or Lotus Exige 240S? If not, you'd know EXACTLY what I mean!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

[beamerstrumpet]

Dumbs us down..

Did you mean to misspell "muscel"?

Ya got me on that one, however I did try spell check, Though my sometimes spelling errors are apparent, I do not speak that way and I do not present myself as such. Good catch though