Pontiac is coming back…

[Eldorado2k]

From what I've heard, your supposed to be awake when you visit a national park, not asleep.

[RippyD]

Okee dokee. I'm not a marketing guy so I can't say if this makes sense.

My father-in-law (now gone) was a 30 year GM guy. Automotive engineer who worked in Detroit and then spent ~20 years helping to manage car factories for GM. When I asked him 25 years ago why GM had so many brands that were competing with each other, he always had an answer. I honestly don't recall what it was, but it never made any sense.

They're all GM cars with parts coming from the same factories and sharing the same design. Why would anybody care if the same car (practically) says Buick vs. Pontiac vs. Chevy on it? They're all the same thing excepting some minor cosmetic changes. Some cars might have different engine options, but that was rare.

[Klasse Act]

Okee dokee. I'm not a marketing guy so I can't say if this makes sense.

My father-in-law (now gone) was a 30 year GM guy. Automotive engineer who worked in Detroit and then spent ~20 years helping to manage car factories for GM. When I asked him 25 years ago why GM had so many brands that were competing with each other, he always had an answer. I honestly don't recall what it was, but it never made any sense.

They're all GM cars with parts coming from the same factories and sharing the same design. Why would anybody care if the same car (practically) says Buick vs. Pontiac vs. Chevy on it? They're all the same thing excepting some minor cosmetic changes. Some cars might have different engine options, but that was rare.

Back in the day though each division had their own engines for instance, even rearends (Olds had a 12 bolt with 10 bolt spec internals) Buick GN's had aluminum brake drums, none of the other G-bodies had thus, just an example. Competition brings out the best, even internally

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[Setec Astronomy]

Back in the day though each division had their own engines for instance, even rearends (Olds had a 12 bolt with 10 bolt spec internals) Buick GN's had aluminum brake drums, none of the other G-bodies had thus, just an example. Competition brings out the best, even internally

Look, I'm a GM guy, but...if you go back far enough "back in the day" they were all separate companies, that GM acquired. I didn't realize until Delphi went bankrupt that Delco was not some division that GM had stood up, they were Delphi Electric Company that GM acquired in the 20's. (on a separate note, Philco was Philadelphia Electric before Ford bought them in the 60's and turned them into Philco Ford). The "own engines" thing went away in the late 70's after they lost that lawsuit with the Oldmobile engines in the Caddy's, after that the brochures started to say "engines produced by GM Powertrain" or something like that, and those specific engines started to fade away, like the Buick V8's with the front distributor. Of course Caddy held on to their specific engines for a while longer.

So sure, there was internal competition and division-specific hardware, up to a point, but once Roger Smith split things into CPC and BOC, everything was pretty much coming out of the same (two) parts bin(s), and to Rippy's point, what about Saturn (which was supposed to have nothing to do with the rest of GM) and Saab (which was always an...eccentric? company)...by the time of the bankruptcy in 2008, they were just generic GM cars with different sheet metal (Saturn had long lost the RIM or whatever panels that were part of the unique original Saturn construction, which wasn't really unique because it was shared with the Fiero).

[RippyD]

Good points. I was aware of the history. I was talking with my father-in-law from ~1990 - 2008, so well after GM had genericized almost all their components.

My FIL had some great stories from the earlier days (I think he started there in the early 50s) about how the divisions would undermine each other and intentionally not share technology or parts. I get that they were protecting a brand, but it sounded unhealthy for the company (my opinion based in my own non-Auto corporate career).

Of course my FIL loved the Corvair. "All you had to do was keep the tire pressure..." was his mantra. Shame they didn't do a better job with the rear suspension in the first version. Ironic and frustrating that it was fixed before Nader's book came out.

[Eldorado2k]

Is it just me or does it seem like the American auto industry was sabotaged by America itself many times over until they finally managed to sink it?

-There was the gas crisis in the early 70’s
-Which lead to the sudden forced downsizing of almost all American made cars without any real time to prepare for it.
-Then Ralph Nader had to come along and impose the 5mph bumper law at the worst possible time, as if they didn’t already have enough on their plates.
-Emission & mileage standards which directly lead to brands like Cadillac producing cars like the Cimmaron in order to average a certain MPG across their entire lineup of cars, that’s the only reason they made that car, because they had to.

By the end of all that chaos it was the late 1980’s and American cars had gone to crap compared to where they once were. Reputation took a hit that took about a decade to recover from and it still hasn’t caught up yet.

They say history repeats itself, I wonder if the self imposed future of EV’s will be similar or even worse once they actually forbid the production of gasoline powered vehicles. Unfortunately I think there’s a good chance America could screw itself once again.

As far as GM goes, I agree that the days of needing 7 different brands under the same umbrella are over. Times have changed and you no longer have Americans eating from your hand like they once were. You’re lucky to be producing a single sedan or coupe these days, and you think bringing back an entire brand is a good idea?

[Klasse Act]

Don't worry about the whole EV mandate thing Ric, it's already being walked back, people just aren't buying them. My buddy Hectour and I talk everyday while at work and I said even if the government gave a voucher for $25K to buy an EV they wouldn't and it's because it doesn't fit the majority of people's life styles, plain and simple

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[Setec Astronomy]

We're probably getting a bit ahead of ourselves, it's been suggested it's a fake ad (that's what it says at the bottom), it seems possible to me that C/D couldn't sell the ad space so just made up something entertaining. I'm not really familiar with the current editorial crew over there.

[Desertnate]

Is it just me or does it seem like the American auto industry was sabotaged by America itself many times over until they finally managed to sink it?

-There was the gas crisis in the early 70’s
-Which lead to the sudden forced downsizing of almost all American made cars without any real time to prepare for it.
-Then Ralph Nader had to come along and impose the 5mph bumper law at the worst possible time, as if they didn’t already have enough on their plates.
-Emission & mileage standards which directly lead to brands like Cadillac producing cars like the Cimmaron in order to average a certain MPG across their entire lineup of cars, that’s the only reason they made that car, because they had to.

By the end of all that chaos it was the late 1980’s and American cars had gone to crap compared to where they once were. Reputation took a hit that took about a decade to recover from and it still hasn’t caught up yet.

You're answer is right there. America didn't sabatoge anyone. The US auto industry simply responded poorly to the market conditions which left them at a disadvantage to other companies. I think there was/is also a healthy measure of corporate arrogance which led to the automakers believing they could cut costs to the bone and consumers would still keep buying their products simply out of blind loyalty.

They didn't keep up with all the changes to the industry and the world starting in the late 70's which allowed automakers in other parts of the world to catch up and pass them. Their cars never caught up and that's why so few are on the market today. They weren't competitive and didn't sell well, so they've mostly been discontinued. Trunks are really the US automaker's only Ace card and that's mostly because it's a uniquely North American vehicle.

The US automakers have the engineering and production capability prowess, but they seem to be slow to change and insular which makes them sometimes ignore what their competition is up to.

[PA DETAILER]

We need a new TRANS AM and FIERO! In 88 they got the FIERO just right then dropped it.