Challenger SRT DEMON wide body. Last call.

[Desertnate]

At the end of the day, no one is forcing people to buy these toys so if I'm a dealer and someone is willing to pay extra and I'm not particularly concerned with developing a long-term relationship with them, I'll cash your check.

Exactly. Money talks. Dealers mark up the cars and they have no problems selling them. That sets the market conditions.

[PA DETAILER]

Guess I am wrong, but I thought I heard some time ago that one of the dealers got in big time trouble for this? That it is illegal to mark up. Manufacture caught wind of this, and the dealer got in trouble. Lost their dealer license I believe. I could totally be in the wrong?

[MisterSnoop]

Guess I am wrong, but I thought I heard some time ago that one of the dealers got in big time trouble for this? That it is illegal to mark up. Manufacture caught wind of this, and the dealer got in trouble. Lost their dealer license I believe. I could totally be in the wrong?

I thought Ford had done some cracking down on that. Don't know that it's illegal. One Dodge dealer had a demon ordered by someone that was overseas in the military when it arrived and then sold it to someone else for a huge markup. Dodge stepped in and offered them another car.

[DETAILROOKIE]

We ordered a Bronco and waited 2 years for it to arrive. When it arrived, it came with a $10k mark up. I went straight to Ford to complain and local news outlets to share what the dealer had planned to do to me and the dealer backed down.

Dealers are straight crooks now a days. I plan on keeping my cars until the wheels fall off and hope the market has come to its senses by the time it is time for me to get another car.

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[Klasse Act]

Good for you

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[Desertnate]

Guess I am wrong, but I thought I heard some time ago that one of the dealers got in big time trouble for this? That it is illegal to mark up. Manufacture caught wind of this, and the dealer got in trouble. Lost their dealer license I believe. I could totally be in the wrong?

Dealership mark-ups aren't illegal in the US, but I think it is in other countries. Some dealerships have been hit recently for other shady practices surrounding how they conned customer's with their financing practices, but not from mark-ups.

Manufactures have taken some action on certain models when they are released, but they haven't taken action across the board. The manufacturers surveillance of their dealership practices is poor and since the dealerships are simply a franchise and not owned by the manufacturer, there is little they can do legally. The laws around auto sales are definitely in the dealership's favor.

I thought Ford had done some cracking down on that. Don't know that it's illegal. One Dodge dealer had a demon ordered by someone that was overseas in the military when it arrived and then sold it to someone else for a huge markup. Dodge stepped in and offered them another car.

The Dealership Group also fired everyone from the GM of the specific dealership down to the salespeople who were involved with the whole fiasco.

Ford and Dodge have over time weighed in a couple times on specific model threatening to limit/withhold allocations or flat-out not allowed dealerships to sell that model at all if caught, but it hasn't been consistent. Dodge seems to limit it to certain special editions of vehicles. Ford might apply restrictions to the Mustang or F-150 Raptor while allowing lunatic mark-ups of F-150 Lightening and Mavrick's.

Other manufactures like Honda, Acura, Toyota, Subaru, KIA or Chevy don't seem to care at all what their dealerships do.

I got lucky with my BRZ. When I bought it, there were dealerships marking them up $10~$20K. The dealership group I went to has a written policy of not doing mark-ups, so I was able to get away with MSRP.

[BudgetPlan1]

Dealership mark-ups aren't illegal in the US, but I think it is in other countries. Some dealerships have been hit recently for other shady practices surrounding how they conned customer's with their financing practices, but not from mark-ups.

Manufactures have taken some action on certain models when they are released, but they haven't taken action across the board. The manufacturers surveillance of their dealership practices is poor and since the dealerships are simply a franchise and not owned by the manufacturer, there is little they can do legally. The laws around auto sales are definitely in the dealership's favor.

During Corvettes C8 initial frenzy, Chevy sent out a letter to dealers discouraging the practice of adding markups after the fact. Had an agreement/order in and when you went to pick it up "Oh, that'll be an additional $10k"; dealers not worried if you backed out as they could easily get the $10k markup when the C8's were hard to get. Threats to dealers of withholding future allocations if caught doing this 'bait and switch' type of deal with regards to ADM's after initial agreement in principle to sell at MSRP.

To discourage flipping cars for profit by non-dealers, when C8 Z06 came out Chevy decreed that if someone sold within 6 months of purchase, warranty would be void for subsequent owners; original owner had (or was supposed to) to sign document at delivery agreeing to this.

Lotsa games going on in car sales apparently, really ramped up during recent crazy times since COVID. Wanna buy a halo Porsche model? Well then, buy (2) SUV's at MSRP, sell them back to us at a depreciated price, grab another 'red headed stepchild' model with the same requirements and then you MAY get put on a list to buy that halo model...at a significant ADM.

Ferrari's are even more bizarrely apathetic with regards to reputations/sales I guess; they don't give a sh*t who they piss off :lol:

A local collector has recently taken an interest in Ferrari's...and the 3 or 4 'lesser' models purchased very recently are all in hopes of quickly developing the relationship necessary to be invited to purchase the next Ferrari 'ultra-special' model. These folks also have 6 or 8 McLarens, 2 or 3 Bugatti's, 10-20 other super/hyper cars but if you want a shot at an uber-Ferrari, get in line and play the game like everyone else (at that level, anyway). I guess money can't buy everything after all.

COVID really screwed up normalcy in the car biz, both new & used. On the plus side, Carvana did give me $20k+ for a nearly 6 year old Honda Accord with 75k hard miles on it so it's not all bad; just depends on which side of the fence you're on!

At the end of the day though, the consumer still has the power although it may mean not getting what we want. Even adjusted for inflation, some fun cars are getting out of practical reach; just for fun I configured a mid-level, not-loaded Corvette today...might be nice for wife to have one with auto-roof retract/hard top convertible (targa tops are, in the end, absurdly inconvenient; always seems like a good idea at the time :ack. Adjusted for inflation the car has risen $20k from the price of the somewhat comparable-level we bought in 2019. Yeah, it's a C8, mid-engine, blah, blah blah (and I should get a discount for the hideous design of the thing from the back of the doors to the tail) but the mid-level Corvette pricing has moved out of affordable for many to "Yeah, that's not gonna work". Heck, even a base level Mustang GT is $42k.

Heck, I don't even know what this rambling diatribe started out about anyway...

[Desertnate]

During Corvettes C8 initial frenzy, Chevy sent out a letter to dealers discouraging the practice of adding markups after the fact. Had an agreement/order in and when you went to pick it up "Oh, that'll be an additional $10k"; dealers not worried if you backed out as they could easily get the $10k markup when the C8's were hard to get. Threats to dealers of withholding future allocations if caught doing this 'bait and switch' type of deal with regards to ADM's after initial agreement in principle to sell at MSRP.

Interesting how they encouraged (but didn't enforce) dealers to not jack up the price after an order is placed, but didn't say anything about simply jacking up the price on the front end of the sale. I don't think it stopped most dealers from either tacking on huge mark-ups post-order and it certainly didn't stop them from marking up inventory to silly levels. Is it even possible to buy a C8 today at MSRP, some four years after production started? I've been casually shopping them for a couple years and I've never seen a new one without a dealer mark up.

I read an article in one of the major car magazines a while back that talked about how the C8 may never have the same sales success of the C7 because dealer markups have pushed the car clean out of the "affordable sportscar" position it used to fill. Chevy worked really hard to hit a reasonable price point and retain it's customer base only to have their dealership network kill those efforts with markups that make the car unaffordable to the target customer.

[BudgetPlan1]

Interesting how they encouraged (but didn't enforce) dealers to not jack up the price after an order is placed, but didn't say anything about simply jacking up the price on the front end of the sale. I don't think it stopped most dealers from either tacking on huge mark-ups post-order and it certainly didn't stop them from marking up inventory to silly levels. Is it even possible to buy a C8 today at MSRP, some four years after production started? I've been casually shopping them for a couple years and I've never seen a new one without a dealer mark up.

I read an article in one of the major car magazines a while back that talked about how the C8 may never have the same sales success of the C7 because dealer markups have pushed the car clean out of the "affordable sportscar" position it used to fill. Chevy worked really hard to hit a reasonable price point and retain it's customer base only to have their dealership network kill those efforts with markups that make the car unaffordable to the target customer.

The initial frenzy has died down as production has begun to coincide with demand. For a Stingray MSRP is easily possible and even saw a dealer offering 4 at invoice the other day. Now it was on social media and I didn't follow up so, well...you know :lol:

There were a few of the big dealers selling at MSRP right from the start but the lists to get the cars were in the hundreds so wait a year or 2. There are some now apparently on the ground/lot that are MSRP or a slight discount: C8 Dealer Inventory - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

There are still many dealers where ADM is still going strong...guess it never hurts to ask :lol:

Even at sticker, mid-level coupe with few options is gonna be near $85k out the door; we bought our mid level 2004 new for $36K (around $54k adjusted for inflation according to the interwebs) so...

Just for fun I Googled this: "According to recent data from Cox Automotive, the average transaction price for new cars is $48,759..."

Can that be true? There's still Honda Civics out there new for $23-25K no? Who's buying all the other stuff to bump the 'average' price up by 2X?

[Desertnate]

The initial frenzy has died down as production has begun to coincide with demand. For a Stingray MSRP is easily possible and even saw a dealer offering 4 at invoice the other day. Now it was on social media and I didn't follow up so, well...you know :lol:

There were a few of the big dealers selling at MSRP right from the start but the lists to get the cars were in the hundreds so wait a year or 2. There are some now apparently on the ground/lot that are MSRP or a slight discount: C8 Dealer Inventory - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Good to hear there is some sanity returning. At least for the Stingray. I can imagine Z06's and E-Rays will be a different story.

Just for fun I Googled this: "According to recent data from Cox Automotive, the average transaction price for new cars is $48,759..."

Can that be true? There's still Honda Civics out there new for $23-25K no? Who's buying all the other stuff to bump the 'average' price up by 2X?

I think it is true. For ever Civic, Accord, or Crosstreck sold for around $30K or lower, there are probably 4 or 5 full sized pick-up trucks sold for $60 or $70K or an SUV in the $40K~$50K range. It really scews the market and the statistics. Want another scary statistic? The average US car loan term is 68.3 months for a new car with an average monthly payment of $726! If the parking lot where I work is any indication, this checks out. There are a ton of large, fairly expensive vehicles being driven by people who could only afford them by taking very long auto loans.