From "stay tuned" to T U N E D !!

[oneheadlite]

What about bad gas or gas with too low of octane? Would the ECU retard timing enough to avoid knock, or could you still get it? Just thinking out loud and grasping at straws now... I've never tripped a light, but have had some very unhappy cars in the past due to both low octane/bad gas.

Plausible; but for how much driving Klasse does and hitting a top tier station I'd think he'd notice a difference from tank to tank.

[Klasse Act]

You've got gremlins my friend...

400 degrees sounds like a substitute value for when the sensor's reading is too far out of range, from a bad sensor/connection/wiring/processing. They should try unplugging whatever sensor reads that and see if it changes - if it doesn't it could be another piece of the puzzle.

Suddenly my Korean car had turned into a British car from the 60's/70's🫣

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[Desertnate]

Oof! Yeah, this is getting interesting. The strange part is despite all the lights and other gremlins, you said the car seemed to run fine...other than on the dyno without a good warm up. I'm surprised the bad reading on the ambien temp sensor hasn't caused some strange behavior with your climate control inside the car. On both my Subaru and the wife's Acura, the car uses that data to determine which vents to direct air and whether to turn on other things like the heated windshield in the Acura.

They told you the dialectic grease is "in", like they had to order it? I would have thought it was something any garage/shop would have on hand and it's easily picked up at any auto parts store. Even if it is special and somehow different from the stuff you'd buy at Autozone, I would think it's a common consumable they'd have on hand.

[Klasse Act]

Oof! Yeah, this is getting interesting. The strange part is despite all the lights and other gremlins, you said the car seemed to run fine...other than on the dyno without a good warm up. I'm surprised the bad reading on the ambien temp sensor hasn't caused some strange behavior with your climate control inside the car. On both my Subaru and the wife's Acura, the car uses that data to determine which vents to direct air and whether to turn on other things like the heated windshield in the Acura.

They told you the dialectic grease is "in", like they had to order it? I would have thought it was something any garage/shop would have on hand and it's easily picked up at any auto parts store. Even if it is special and somehow different from the stuff you'd buy at Autozone, I would think it's a common consumable they'd have on hand.

I thought that too about the grease, I'll be passing along that ambient temp diagnosis too, you guys have been great, now let's hope the Dealership can be great

I've only driven 15 miles since leaving the dealership Monday, so not enough miles for the code to come back (last time it was 4 days/47 miles).

Speaking of this, if a sensor is bad, why does clearing the code work at all, even if it's a short time/mileage

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[Desertnate]

Speaking of this, if a sensor is bad, why does clearing the code work at all, even if it's a short time/mileage

When you clear the code, you're not actually doing anything with the sensor itself, you're simply erasing the code from the memory in the ECU, like deleting a number from an Excel spreadsheet. When the software in the ECU gets a value from the sensor it doesn't like, it writes the code back into memory for you to see and turns on the warning light. There are lots of reasons why you might be see varying times between the light coming on. It could be the sensor randomly fritzing out and sending a bad value, it might actually be taking on water when you wash the car, or (like Oneheadlight mentioned) the sensor could be working right and detecting something in the engine. In the event the sensor is actually working properly you might see the various gaps due to the knock event only happening at random times, or the the ECU allows for a certain number of knock events to happen before trigging the light and throwing a code.

The strange part to me in all of this is the fact it only happens when the car is washed. Where is the sensor located? Unless you're washing the engine bay I'd think it would stay pretty dry or, depending on location, washing would be no different than driving in the rain.

Refresh my memory. You don't see/notice any change in performance after the light/code are cleared, correct? The car doesn't go into a "limp mode" like BMW's do?

[Klasse Act]

I'm not washing the engine bay, it's a touch-free wash but it takes time for the wash to trigger it.

The car was put into service on March 23rd, 2022, started using the touch-free wash July of 2022 and the first issue was 1 calender year later, July 2023. Took it to them 3x's, first 2 cleared, washed and returned, 3rd was knock sensor replacement. Fast forward to Jan 30th 2024 after a wash, many times used since repair and here we are.

When it's cleared the performance seems fine, unlike when in limpmode where it will not Rev past 2K.

Today they worked on it, talked to their techline, they added the grease and while on the test drive it came back but here's the thing, the SA asked me questions from the tech. The first one was my TB spacer...don't have one. The next thing was my trans mount bushings. I told them they're street version inserts which reduce wheel hop and shaking, no more vibrations of epic proportions since installing these. Even from a roll this thing would wheelhop, so not sure what the F they're trying to do here (I think I know).

My OEM+ intake is 100% not an issue, the larger TIP is just that, larger and the mid-pipe is nothing, this sucks️

If this goes sideways I'll be away from the site for quite some time and with all the talk here lately the site might be gone by the time I'm back, if I even come back because financially I can't afford a lawyer and might have to do a voluntary repo of my car, so much for my stellar credit score🫣

I'd like to thank you all for your help here, if you know a good lawyer maybe send him my way

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[Big Dave]

This may seem like a weird coincidence, but I listen to this guy's podcasts almost everyday, and one of his specialities is lemon law. I don't know if you were joking or not, but he sounds like he knows what he's doing.

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney - Law Office of Steve Lehto



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[Coatingsarecrack]

This may seem like a weird coincidence, but I listen to this guy's podcasts almost everyday, and one of his specialities is lemon law. I don't know if you were joking or not, but he sounds like he knows what he's doing.

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney - Law Office of Steve Lehto



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I think there going to question him about mods and thus trying to void his warranty. He won’t be lemon law’ing but trying to get them not too… from my understanding is that the moss have to be shown to affect or cause issue to void warranty. But I am no lawyer.

I was surprised the swapped your ECU with a tune. Probably good that happened before questioning. I don’t see how mods you have now could be triggering knock but I am no lawyer or mechanic.

But [mention]Klasse Act [/mention] … not coming here is segregating yourself from people who have your back and can empathize with you.

Wish you luck man and I hope all gets fixed.


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[Big Dave]

I think there going to question him about mods and thus trying to void his warranty. He won’t be lemon law’ing but trying to get them not too… from my understanding is that the moss have to be shown to affect or cause issue to void warranty. But I am no lawyer.

I was surprised the swapped your ECU with a tune. Probably good that happened before questioning. I don’t see how mods you have now could be triggering knock but I am no lawyer or mechanic.

But [mention]Klasse Act [/mention] … not coming here is segregating yourself from people who have your back and can empathize with you.

Wish you luck man and I hope all gets fixed.


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If it happens to both modified and unmodified cars then the mods have nothing to do with it, and it appears to be happening to both. That doesn't mean they won't try to void it, but sometimes correspondence from a lawyer shows that you mean business, especially if you can cite evidence that the same thing is happening to both modified and unmodified vehicles. Car companies hate class actions, they can be very expensive.

We don't have lemon laws over here, but it is possible to get your money back. A woman took Land Rover Australia to court because her new Range Rover spent more time at the dealership than with her in the first year she had it due to numerous faults, she won and they had to pay back the total purchase price, and had to pay her legal costs.

People don't always win though, a guy blew up the engine in his 2 year old ute, I can't remember the brand, but it would have been a turbo diesel, they quoted around $18k for a replacement engine, he tried to claim warranty from the vehicle manufacturer, but he had an aftermarket bullbar fitted and the manufacturer said it voided the warranty as it affected the air flow for cooling. He tried to claim from the bullbar manufacturer, and they said the faulty engine has nothing to do with them, he's basically screwed.

This knock sensor issue has happened to a few Elantra Ns now, and even a Kona N. Hyundai won't want bad press from this, they've designed this poorly, and they need to fix it.

Someone should mount a GoPro under the hood then wash and drive it just to see if there's any obvious water flowing around?

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[TTQ B4U]

I think there going to question him about mods and thus trying to void his warranty. He won’t be lemon law’ing but trying to get them not too… from my understanding is that the moss have to be shown to affect or cause issue to void warranty. But I am no lawyer.

Agree. I can see this coming from here. They probably got the old ECU back and have figured things out and will likely take that as a way of not having to pay or document the issue that may or may not be the underlying cause. The Moss act is a little grey when fighting it. My wife is a lawyer and worked with a firm that took consumer law cases like this. In the end, manufacturers do a LOT Of testing and documentation, and in the end all they will really have to prove is that their factory/stock stuff works, and if a different tune was applied, then their factory warranty will no longer apply as it's no longer their full design that they back up. It's not even so much about proving the tune caused it, they have hundreds of thousands of cases that can prove these things don't happen to stock vehicles, and that so long as the design stays within their parameters and the consumer side will have to back up their argument to the opposite effect. Tunes are not like using different motor mount or hard-part. Software is much different. There's a reason why the phrase is "pay to play"

I've tuned or modified nearly every car I've owned and gotten lucky to have either avoided issues or at least the BIG ones. I'm leaving my Accord stock for a number of reasons, but this is one of them. These newer 4cyl. turbo cars in this generation of engineering are really already pushing limits and so tightly tuned that nearly everything/anything tosses a code somewhere. Not knocking the Koreans as the new products are pretty nice, but it's still my opinion they aren't long-term reliable or as well designed as others in the business.

I've not kept up with this entire thread but my assumption is after his tune there were some odd issues and now the dealer and manufacturer are looking into them. I personally would suspect it's time to trade that sucker in a cut-bait.