Tomorrow is "D" day, and I'm not sure which way I want it to go...

[Don M]

"D" for 'Diagnosis.'

Most of you may know that I got a $4,200 estimate for repairs on my Camaro for the following things: 1) Bad Wheel Bearing, 2) New Clutch, 3) Unknown Check Engine Light/"Engine Power Reduced" message and finally, 4) Oil Change.

The shop I have been going to for the last 7 years, diagnosed the Check Engine Light as being a vacuum leak in either the front or rear crankshaft seal(s). That alone accounted for $2,800 of the $4,200 total. Being as messed up as I've been from work, I didn't question it right away, but I did post about it on a few Camaro forums - DANG! Did I get BLASTED!! I was told everything from the basic: "They're straight out ripping you off," to "Take it to a Chevrolet Dealer, they know your car the best," to: "get at least TWO other estimates, including one from a dealership."

Up until the Camaro, I never really HAD a shop I trusted to work on my cars. There was a guy in Cleveland that had a small shop, that I trusted to do a few things to the cars. One of the things he did was turn me on to AMSOIL products. A few years go by, he closes his shop (he said he was too old & tired to continue). So my source of AMSOIL dried up - they DON'T sell it in stores, you either have to find an independent retailer who carries it, or order it on-line directly.

When I got the Camaro, I knew I wanted to use AMSOIL in it (I had lost 2 engines using Mobil 1), so I started searching and located a local shop that carries it. I'd had the car a few months by then, and was taking advantage of the Free Oil Change package offered by the dealership when I bought the car. By then, I had spent a lot of time on the forums and learned a lot about the ins & outs of my model Camaro & its mechanicals, including possible long-term issues. So I went to the shop to get an oil change and while the car was being worked on, I 'grilled' the owner with questions I already knew the answers to about my car. He was 100% right on everything I asked. That's what started the 7 year run with the shop. All that time, they never took advantage of me, or anyone I sent there.

A $4,200 estimate later, and now I'm concerned and torn. Do I want them to be right and have my car really need the work they estimated (but can't afford), which would mean they are still being honest with me? Or do I want them to be wrong/mistaken about what needs fixed, so It won't be as expensive to repair? **I'm still having a very hard time wanting to think that they are just intentionally trying to soak me.** I've lost trust in a LOT of people over the last 30+ years, as a result, I don't have many (if any) friends, certainly none I can talk to about what's going on currently. So you could say that posting here is an act of desperation. It's relatively anonymous (even though it's a public forum) and I feel KIND OF safe saying some things here. So take that for what it's worth.

Anyway, a new "wrinkle" has popped up. The car had been sitting for almost two weeks, unused. I went out to start the car a few days ago, to take a picture of the "Engine Power Reduced" message and the car almost didn't start. It acted like it had sat for months through the depth of winter, instead of just two weeks. The battery acted like it was almost dead, but it did start. ALL of the warning lights stayed off, the only light showing was the basic "Check Engine Light." So I took it for a spin around the block. It wasn't in "Limp Home Mode" anymore. This is raising OTHER concerns. I know, for example, that in a modern car, with all it's computer controls and sensors, that a bad battery can, and often will cause the car to kick out error codes. Doing some digging, I'm starting to realize that the 'life' of a replacement battery these days is roughly 2 - 3 years. Which is about how old this battery is, but when my original battery finally went out, the car would "lock" itself constantly and the alarm would occasionally sound, when neither I or the remote was anywhere near it. But there were no engine lights.

I've already notified the shop that's looking the car over tomorrow and told them to check the battery before doing anything else. A simple bad battery ($200 - $250) would make my life SO much easier, but with MY luck, I don't expect anything to be that simple.

Wish me luck.

[Desertnate]

When they gave you the estimate was it itemized in any way? Even roughly parts/labor? Quite often it's the labor, not the parts themselves which kill you in the case of a repair. These days indy shops aren't much better than a dealer because they need to retain/pay for good employees. Also, some vehicles require insane amounts of work to do some tasks. I learned that with our Highlander when it comes to things like sparkplugs in the back bank or replacing the water pump. I drives up labor costs.

RE: Batteries. It could be the battery and that might be a good place to start for the codes. I had a car totally freak out when the battery died. Every light on the dash lit up. Multiple strange warnings on the displays, strange noises, and I think the headlights might have flashed for a minute before dying. I was a little wound up when I called a friend who also was a service manager at a local dealership. He talked me off the ledge, set aside a battery for me at the parts department, and told me to come get it. He was absolutely right...and the battery turned out to be a bit cheaper than the parts store.

As for the codes themselves, it could be a temperamental sensor or a burp in the electronics of the car. I've had two cars over the last couple years which threw out very worrying codes. One seemed to run OK, but threw a crankshaft code on a road trip. After a couple re-starts, it went away and after 30K miles has never returned. The other instance in another car it went into limp mode and caused me to pull off the highway. After a restart, it was perfect again and the warnings/codes never returned. If the car drove fine, this might be the case.

For the wheel bearings and the clutch, can you buy them yourself and bring them to the garage doing the work? Some times you can get the parts cheaper than the shop (or have access to different brands they don't via something like Rock Auto) and that would bring down the costs of those two repairs. I'm kind of surprise by the clutch wearing out. I don't think I've ever had to replace one in any of my vehicles. If neither is too bad you could space out the repairs too. Maybe start with the wheel bearings.

[bill walsh]

a lot of repair shops will not install your parts due to liability

[The D]

Did the car exhibit any signs of the battery dying? If not, or they weren’t obvious, that doesn’t sound plausible. And two weeks without any activity or being on a battery tender could certainly cause a dead battery even under the best conditions

[Bill D]

My father just had his battery replaced this morning but he had warning signs

Me, I haven't been so fortunate. My car batteries go by three years old without warning even though I have two of them constantly on Battery Tenders. It's just part of the cost of living here.

[opie]

I just replaced, my battery in 07silverado classic. Original battery from factory lasted 6 years. I then installed a new OE acdelco professional battery which lasted me 9 years. I replaced it with the same acdelco battery. $160 at cost at a local gm dealer(saved $30).

Didnt give me much of a warning but after further testing/investagation that was the issue. Never sees a charger other than from the alternator.

And it is not uncommon for this truck to sit unused for 1-2 weeks at a time. And vertually no use during the winter.

Ive also used advanced auto brand batteries in the wifes jeep and got 10 years out of it. It sits just about as much as my truck.

Just some battery info for ya

Don, seems like alot to replace crank seal but idk what all the fix entails. I would ask them what all theyhave to tear apart to fix it.

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[Don M]

I just replaced, my battery in 07silverado classic. Original battery from factory lasted 6 years. I then installed a new OE acdelco professional battery which lasted me 9 years. I replaced it with the same acdelco battery. $160 at cost at a local gm dealer(saved $30).

Didnt give me much of a warning but after further testing/investagation that was the issue. Never sees a charger other than from the alternator.

And it is not uncommon for this truck to sit unused for 1-2 weeks at a time. And vertually no use during the winter.

Ive also used advanced auto brand batteries in the wifes jeep and got 10 years out of it. It sits just about as much as my truck.

Just some battery info for ya

Don, seems like alot to replace crank seal but idk what all the fix entails. I would ask them what all theyhave to tear apart to fix it.

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The total for JUST the bad? seals is $2,800. They said the front seal was easy, but for the rear seal, they had to (at minimum) drop the bell-housing of the transmission. Which is why I asked them about doing the clutch as well, since they would have to do the same thing to replace the clutch (why pay for the same labor twice?).

This whole thing just has me screwed up and my head is DEFINITELY NOT in the game. All the stress and unnecessary BS & drama at work, when all I'm doing is trying to ride it out until I retire (a tick over 5 months). Then to add to the mess, the $4,200 estimate, pretty much finished me off, I AM NOT in a good place right now.

FORTUNATELY, my wife of 30 years (as of yesterday) KNOWS what is going on with work and has been very understanding and supportive.

[opie]

The total for JUST the bad? seals is $2,800. They said the front seal was easy, but for the rear seal, they had to (at minimum) drop the bell-housing of the transmission. Which is why I asked them about doing the clutch as well, since they would have to do the same thing to replace the clutch (why pay for the same labor twice?).

This whole thing just has me screwed up and my head is DEFINITELY NOT in the game. All the stress and unnecessary BS & drama at work, when all I'm doing is trying to ride it out until I retire (a tick over 5 months). Then to add to the mess, the $4,200 estimate, pretty much finished me off, I AM NOT in a good place right now.

FORTUNATELY, my wife of 30 years (as of yesterday) KNOWS what is going on with work and has been very understanding and supportive.

Do they ever print you out an itomized receipt when you pay for service there? I always get one, has parts cost, labor hours/rate and such. You could take those numbers and figure out how many hours they say itll take them if you knew the rate they charge.

Otherwise, i cant remember if you said you have yet but if not, call around for prices. It does sound high.

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[luckydawg]

a lot of repair shops will not install your parts due to liability

That is a blanket excuse that busisness use

And we all know ( or should ) know what an excuse is

[luckydawg]

Bite the bullet & take it to the dealer

Then sell it- as I have been hearing for the last year and a half " used car prices are high- you will never get as much for your used car as you can now"