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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
Originally Posted by oneheadlite
... Separate question - Do you think using the Kreg Screws 90° into the wood (I'd pre-drill for this part) would be fine for attaching the 2x4's to the outer 2x6's? Wasn't sure what the best hardware would be for that application; seems like with the smooth upper shank that would be a safe way to go.
Yes.
But so would just about any other wood screw.
2 1/2 L.
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
Forgive the fact that it’s just a screen shot of the app I used to rough in the idea. It’s to-scale, each lil square is 1 inch.
Center 6 boards are the 2x4’s, perimeter 4 are the 2x6’s. The squares show (roughly) where the slats go (I’ll even then out during install).
End view at top; I’ll have to notch the 2x4’s to clear the laid-down 2x6 supports (that the legs mount to) so the whole support structure is hidden.
Hopefully this makes sense!
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
I missed pocket hole mention in your post.
With 2x material, are you using the Kreg HD or at least larger screws? The standard system isn’t compatible with 2x material. Also make sure you use coarse screws as the fine screws are for plywood. And the Kreg screws have a drilling tip so it shouldn’t split.
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
Originally Posted by oneheadlite
I'm familiar with how wood needs to be sealed on all sides, any kind of finish on our deck has been a losing battle since we've moved in for that reason (plus it was timing out when we got there anyway).
2 words ... Armstrong Clark. Most people have their deck finish fail because of using the wrong (or crappy) product. And also, as with car detailing, surface prep is critical. To get a wood deck right you need to first strip the wood of old paint/stain, then follow that up with a brightener. Only then is the wood ready for new stain. Armstrong Clark makes some of the best.
Corner joints will be pocket screws, still debating fastening method for support structure to outer rails. Thinking simple screw straight in at 90°. Center cross support will be 2x6, corners will be 45° 2x6's to pull the legs in from the corners 6". Feet (6 total) will be 6.5" tall 4x4's with hardwood dowels inserted across the grain to ensure the hardware has something good to grab onto.
Have you considered adding any corner braces ?
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
Based on that, you shouldn't even need to use pocket screws and you might be better off just using screws, especially with your nested construction. It would be stronger than pocket screws but definitely drill pilot holes. If you don’t want the screws to show on the outside, you could use wood pegs to cover the screws. I’d recommend drilling through the side and into the end grain and use long coarse screws
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
I do quite a bit of work for my cousin who is a high-end woodworker, master plumber, and GC.
I would stay away from D-Fir for your bed frame.
The one simple reason is that D-Fir will always warp, crown, or twist to some degree, and is highly susceptible to splitting on the end grain (with fasteners).
D-Fir 2x4's are milled with idea that they will be supporting weight vertically (interior walls) or in the case of horizontal applications, be at least doubled up if not used for sills or other direct contact.
And even "Kiln-Dried" can ooze fir sap in the future. Especially in a heated environment like your bedroom.
IMO, (and to keep it "cheap") I would price out some 8/4 (eight quarter) #2 pine for your bed frame. JMO............
It is no coincidence that man's best friend cannot talk.
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
Originally Posted by PaulMys
I do quite a bit of work for my cousin who is a high-end woodworker, master plumber, and GC.
I would stay away from D-Fir for your bed frame.
The one simple reason is that D-Fir will always warp, crown, or twist to some degree, and is highly susceptible to splitting on the end grain (with fasteners).
D-Fir 2x4's are milled with idea that they will be supporting weight vertically (interior walls) or in the case of horizontal applications, be at least doubled up if not used for sills or other direct contact.
And even "Kiln-Dried" can ooze fir sap in the future. Especially in a heated environment like your bedroom.
IMO, (and to keep it "cheap") I would price out some 8/4 (eight quarter) #2 pine for your bed frame. JMO............
You're right Paul. But, he already bought the materials and probably doesn't want to double purchase. I would have built it out of 3/4 plywood and MDO or MDF to skirt it.
Oh, and the PL Premium suggestion is gold. Just be careful when you use it. You won't get it off mistakes and your skin will hold it until the layer dies and peels off.
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
PL Premium 3X cleans with mineral spirits so make sure you have some on hand.
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Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
First off, many thanks to everyone, this has gotten way more responses than I thought it would!!
Originally Posted by 57Rambler
2 words ... Armstrong Clark. Most people have their deck finish fail because of using the wrong (or crappy) product. And also, as with car detailing, surface prep is critical. To get a wood deck right you need to first strip the wood of old paint/stain, then follow that up with a brightener. Only then is the wood ready for new stain. Armstrong Clark makes some of the best.
Have you considered adding any corner braces ?
From the looks of our deck, it was probably done in by neglect. Long term house goal is tearing it down and starting over.
As far as corner braces, the support feet at the outside corners will be 22” diagonal 2x6’s. I only made it as far as getting an example of 1 onto the draft above (bottom left corner).
Originally Posted by dgage
Based on that, you shouldn't even need to use pocket screws and you might be better off just using screws, especially with your nested construction. It would be stronger than pocket screws but definitely drill pilot holes. If you don’t want the screws to show on the outside, you could use wood pegs to cover the screws. I’d recommend drilling through the side and into the end grain and use long coarse screws
From my reading, I was under the impression sinking screws into end grain actually isn’t as strong due to how the fibers in the wood run? Like screwing into the end of a box of straws. Also from what I’ve read (granted, from the internet), pocket screws actually have quite a high holding capacity in all but one direction. I’m not too worried about that one weak direction as for a queen size bed constructed as above I feel like there should be plenty of material/fasteners/glue to keep it sturdy.
Originally Posted by PaulMys
I do quite a bit of work for my cousin who is a high-end woodworker, master plumber, and GC.
I would stay away from D-Fir for your bed frame.
The one simple reason is that D-Fir will always warp, crown, or twist to some degree, and is highly susceptible to splitting on the end grain (with fasteners).
D-Fir 2x4's are milled with idea that they will be supporting weight vertically (interior walls) or in the case of horizontal applications, be at least doubled up if not used for sills or other direct contact.
And even "Kiln-Dried" can ooze fir sap in the future. Especially in a heated environment like your bedroom.
IMO, (and to keep it "cheap") I would price out some 8/4 (eight quarter) #2 pine for your bed frame. JMO............
Well Heck. Part of why I went with Douglas Fir was that I had read that it tended to be more stable than pine. I had even seen posts where people had made their own pine bed frame (not in the same fashion as what I drew up) and had elements of it get quite warped. But, who knows the specifics of what they were using which would have a huge effect on stability.
Good point on how D-Fir is milled to support weight vertically; that’s part of why I have 2 center support beams. I know floor joist spacing is typically 16” on center, and mine are at 18”, but I figure since there’s no span longer than a few feet it should be ok. Especially since it’s only a queen size bed, and we’re normal size folks. And the Danes sleep on their own beds on the floor.
Originally Posted by ducksfan
You're right Paul. But, he already bought the materials and probably doesn't want to double purchase. I would have built it out of 3/4 plywood and MDO or MDF to skirt it.
Oh, and the PL Premium suggestion is gold. Just be careful when you use it. You won't get it off mistakes and your skin will hold it until the layer dies and peels off.
Really good safety tip, thanks!
I definitely can see the value in using manufactured lumber for strength, but a big limiting factor is that I don’t have a lot of equipment to work with. I’m borrowing a compound miter saw from a friend, and don’t have access to a table saw.
While I’m comfortable with mechanicals (Auto tech by day, and I’m also familiar with fabrication/over-building as I’ve also been part of a series of race car builds), I haven’t done a lot of woodworking.
What’s the working time on that glue?
Originally Posted by dgage
PL Premium 3X cleans with mineral spirits so make sure you have some on hand.
Excellent, I think I’ve got a tin of that. Thanks!
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Super Member
Re: Question for our in-house woodworker peeps
Your choice of Doug Fir is perfectly fine. Sure there are other options, each with its own pro/cons, but Doug Fir is a solid choice.
Your understanding of pocket screws vs. straight screws into end grain is spot-on.
The PL Premium gives you plenty of working time. 30-40 minutes easy in which time you can reposition or tweak the joints if necessary. I give it a minimum of a few hours (overnight preferable) before handling or un-clamping, although that time isn't necessary in your case as the joints will be screwed.
Suggestion... Drill all of your screw holes and completely assemble your frame before applying any glue. This is called a dry-fit and insures everything fits properly before you permanently glue anything. Then disassemble (sometimes depending on the project I'll do this one joint at a time), apply the glue, and reassemble. Another benefit to pre-drilling/pre-assembly is that joints which are glued can be difficult to keep aligned during drilling/assembly as the joint will slip and slide on the glue. Pre-drilling/pre-assembly will help you to minimize this issue.
And finally, although you're probably already aware, be sure to restrain the frame "square" and "flat" until the glue is cured.
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