Got asked for invoice to show how I came up with my price

[y8s]

My response would be: That information is proprietary and is developed based on a myriad of things like, age and condition of a particular vehicle(s), the amount of work anticipated, the number of and type of services required and the expected cost of time and materials needed to complete the project. The price I quote is non-negotiable.

I've been detailing for 50+ years and over that time have developed a very good feel for what a detail will take on any specific vehicle. I don't itemize. In many ways, detailing is like an art form. You wouldn't ask Picasso for an itemization.

Didn't I just read a thread about some guy asking a lot of pricing questions of a detailer only to find that person set up another detailing shop and used his prices? Why would someone want a detailed breakdown of a detail? My customers don't. I've never been asked for an itemized breakdown.

Totally agree with this. First off, this is a private business. You are under no obligation to divulge that information.

If he gives you a hard time, ask him how much he makes and tell him the price will be contingent on that.

[FUNX650]

I just gave them an invoice that simply stated truck interior $125 and gave a list of what I do for interiors with nothing specific to each truck and they were fine with it.

^^^Thanks for the answer to your thread-starter question!^^^


so I will hold true to my price.

Only you, then, know if this amount-of-money accommodates your Personal Budget/Lifestyle...

Again...Good Luck on this venture!



Bob

[swanicyouth]

$1.00 clean seat bolster (L)
$1.00 clean seat bolster (R)
$2.50 clean left vent..
Etc...

[Trey T]

Overall, the thought process of Jfelbab is not complete but here's my thought.

There are two types of pricing that fits all businesses:
1. Fixed price - you set a price that ppl recognize/understand that's fair respective to your qualification and service/product.
2. To-be-negotiated or lump-sum - build up (or itemize) the cost based on different efforts. When you know there's competition, you need to let the client/customer understand the individual cost.

Jfelbab's idea has a mixture of #1 and #2 which is a bad recommendation.

Note that "fixed price" only make sense when people understand the value of the service/product; if they don't understand then you need to move it to be negotiated. Where the market is not competitive, fixed price works well; if your client don't like the fixed price, you can tell your client "if you don't like my price, you find someone else."

My response would be: That information is proprietary and is developed based on a myriad of things like, age and condition of a particular vehicle(s), the amount of work anticipated, the number of and type of services required and the expected cost of time and materials needed to complete the project. The price I quote is non-negotiable.

The detailing business is becoming very competitive so might not a good idea. There's a balancing act when it comes to continual work or contract work. It's a game and can be very scientific. There's a lot to know about contracting work: pricing vs service/product.

I've been detailing for 50+ years and over that time have developed a very good feel for what a detail will take on any specific vehicle. I don't itemize. In many ways, detailing is like an art form. You wouldn't ask Picasso for an itemization.

....

[sunday joe]

Very well said (the part in bold)

I didn't see the other thread you refer to. Gotta link?

Not sure, but I think I saw it yesterday on Meguires. May have been on Auto Geek forum.

[magna_power]

If a custom asks for something I don't see the point in giving them a smart a$$ bs response. They probably just wanted to know what you would be doing.

Everyone is right, you don't have to tell them, just like they don't have to hire you.

If you think you aren't charging enough feel free to organise a contract with them. It may be hard to increase your price for the current volume you are doing (ie they will be unhappy), but you should be able to arrange to get more if they start giving you less.

If you want the work then you will need to work with them to find a happy medium.

[Eandras]

I always wondered why people always want to negotiate pricing with a small business. When I was in outside sales when a customer asked for a discount over what I offered on the products that I sold I would literally ask them if they asked for a discount at McDonalds or at their doctors when they had their sick child in the waiting room. If they said no I would tell them why are you asking me for a discount? Most people would back down and accept my offer. I was always the companies top producer of sales and wasn't always in sales just my first few years out of college.

So if they are asking for an itemized list to discount tell them the price is the price.

If they are asking for an itemized list for additional services then provide a list of additional services.

If they ask for a discount tell them you will provide a discount if they will garuntee a certain amount of business that you will provide a rebate at the end of the agreement. It they don't make the minimum amount then you get to rebate for not meeting the minimum work that was not performed.

Discounts could be offered for prepay rather then waiting for check or a discount if they pay in 5 days.

[Flash Gordon]

Not sure, but I think I saw it yesterday on Meguires. May have been on Auto Geek forum.

Thanks Sunday Joe. I'll go check Megsonline for the scoop

Lots of valid points being made in this thread

[davidc11291]

I just gave them an invoice that simply stated truck interior $125 and gave a list of what I do for interiors with nothing specific to each truck and they were fine with it. But after reading some of the above comments I do not believe I'm charging enough.

I think the way you did the invoice is perfect- a price quote and a break down of everything that's done. Make sure you list every detail. More steps on paper makes the job look harder to do and more complicated, and it really is hard and sometimes complicated work. Instead of just listing "shampoo carpets" list 2 separate steps- "stain treatment and removal" and then list "shampoo carpets with a commercial carpet extractor." Adding the phrase "commercial carpet extractor" looks like a professional business with high grade, professional equipment (although I actually just sold my carpet extractor because I love my Rigid wet/dry vac so much).

As far as not charging enough, it depends. Prices for everything, including detailing, vary based on what part of the country you're in. I would suspect that $100-$150 would be a price range that would work in 80% of the country (with the upper range being expensive areas like NYC and Los Angeles), but that's a guess. I'm in the south, and $100 is a good number for a high quality interior detail in my area.

Also, remember that this fleet is bringing you volume, so they're going to want a discounted rate. I would think that 25% off of your standard rate would be a great deal for them, and I wouldn't cut any more off my prices than 25%. Whether you're actually giving them 25% off or not is irrelevant. What is important is that they think they're getting 25% off, so if you have a website, make sure you don't have an interior detail listed for $125, unless you can tell the fleet account that the interior detail on the website doesn't include upsells, like stain removal and carpet shampooing, which are included in the detail package that the fleet account is getting.

Someone earlier talked about figuring out your bring home pay versus your gross, and estimated a 50% loss. I have to respectfully disagree with how they came up with their numbers. They included taxes, meals, and fuel/travel. IMO, these shouldn't be included, because these are the exact same expenses EVERYONE has, regardless of their job. Everybody pays income tax. It is true that as a business owner you will pay an extra 5.65% in taxes, though, so that part should be counted as a business expense. I've always eaten at least 1 meal per day at work, whether it's a packed lunch or McDonald's. Fuel and travel should be included if you're driving to 3 different locations per day, but if you're driving to 1 location and working all day on site, your fuel and travel costs are no different from some guy who works in an office and drives to and from work every day.

IMO, expenses should be figured like this-
Take off-
-taxes take 5.65% after you've deducted all other business expenses
-business insurance (if you have it)
-chemicals used (easiest way is to keep track of how much you spend per month on chemicals over a 3 month span, then divide that out by the number of hours you worked in that 3 month period. You've gotta keep a log of how many hours you work each day. Estimating won't cut it.
-uniforms (5 t shirts every six months with your company name/logo. $200/year?
-equipment extractors break, pressure washers die. Hopefully not all at the same time, but equipment does eventually have to be replaced. Still, if you set $100/month aside for equipment replacement, you could buy an extractor, a DA, and a pressure washer every year, so your equipment replacement cost is a tiny fraction of your budget.
-fuel/travel to get a true representation of fuel/travel cost, let's say you drive to your first job of the day. You don't count that in your fuel expenses, but for the rest of the day, you now keep track of your mileage, and every mile after you leave the first drive is counted as an additional business expense, but when you leave the last job of the day to go home, you don't count the miles from the last job back to your house. This means that you drove to work in the morning and drove home in the afternoon, just like everybody else, but all the extra driving that you did in the middle of the day (the fuel expenses that the normal person doesn't have), this driving is counted as an extra business expense. If you're driving from house to house doing a lot of quick $40 wash and vacuum jobs, you'll have a lot of travel expenses. If you're going to 1 or 2 locations per day, you travel expenses are the same as someone with a normal job.
-advertising If you're paying for any form of advertising, you gotta factor that in
-business cell phone

So here's what it's gonna look like in the end. Let's say you're grossing $27/hour. You don't have any business insurance. No employees (so no worker's comp insurance). You're doing 2 details per day, both at the same location, and you're working 8 hour days. You made $216, minus $20 for chemicals ($10 per car), minus $1 per day for uniforms, minus $10 per day for Google Adwords, minus $0.30 per day for business cards, minus $2 per day for your business cell phone, minus $4 per day for your equipment replacement fund. That leaves $178.70 and we take off 5.65% for the extra taxes that business owners pay. That gives us $168.60, so in 8 hours you made $168.60, or $21.08 per hour.

Now this is the same as a guy who makes $21.08 per hour at an office, before income taxes, health insurance, and other deductions are taken out. And actually, I just thought about something. An awful lot of people don't wear company uniforms to work. They wear their own clothes, that they have to purchase, so really we shouldn't count uniforms as a business expense, but I'm not going to go back through all that and do the math again.

BTW- how did you get your first fleet account? I'd like to get a fleet or 2.

[Auto Envy]

Thanks for the info. It's all very helpful. I got the fleet job through thumbtack its just free advertising for companies.

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