Ceramiclear Paints - Be Careful

[Theostoubos]

Thank you for a very very interesting and informative post.

After a brief search I came up wit this 10 year old bulletin by Mercedes that might give some additional info.

They recommend the use of a DA with a soft pad and Meguiars or 3M.... Nothing we are not aware of, plus we all know that the technology of polishes has advanced tremendously since 2002.

Here is the bulletin. I hope it helps.


http://www.ppg.com/coatings/refinish...eramiClear.pdf

[Bates Detailing]

Mike – This is a great article! I’ve not only corrected many vehicles equipped with finickey clears, but ones with the notorious (and misrepresented) CeramiClear finish. This finish is actually a joint effort of PPG and Mercedes of Germany. PPG also makes/has made a few other similar clears for BMW 5, 6 & 7 Series (Powered Clear) and Ferrari (I can’t recall the name), Infinity (Self Healing), Nissan (Scratch Guard).

Mercedes is the only manufacturer using CeramiClear on most of their overseas manufactured vehicles. Mercedes produced in the US, such as their ML , GL and GLK trucks, do not have CeramiClear as well as any vehicle with a Carbon Fiber substrate like the Black Series and SLR which is actually painted in England (McClaren). As a matter of fact, I’ve been told my one of the PPG factory reps that the clear on the SLR (which is extremely soft) can actually be reflowed with a dedicated heat lamp making it more rigid.

The nano-particles in the CeramiClear system is not only in place on the top surface portion of the clearcoat, but throughout the entire clearcoat surface, but for the most part the “hard” attributes are highly concentrated in the upper .2-.3 mils of the surface. So, this special feature can be removed with heavy buffing and/or sanding. Because this surface is so hard in nature, it would take multiple hard buffing sessions to conquer this.

Mercedes started using CeramiClear finishes around 2003 and can be identified by inspection of their Vin tag located on the driver’s door jam. Look to the paint code and it should have a “C” indicating that it is indeed CeramiClear.



Despite what Eric mentioned, CeramiClear can and is being applied in the refinish industry. I actually know of 2 shops in the S. Florida area that are spraying CeramiClear and charging a premium for it too. Hope this helps!

Awesome info - I actually checked the last Mercedes we did and looked for a C because of this thread and pic posted... allowing me to figure out which would be the best method to correct when my client wants it done - the C was not there by the way, but a very happy customer knowing that his detailer was knowledgeable of such an "issue". Another big thanx to AG for the sharing of knowledge .

[surajprasade]

I don't know much about this finishes. I have seen on TV. program using ceramic-lair paint on Ferrari Fiorano 599. I got some quarries regarding this paint.
[1] If they are scratch resistance then how do they get scratched?
[2] If both the paint finishes [regular clear-coat & ceramic-lair] are going to get scratched then why don't automobile manufacturer uses the clear coat finish as it will be economical to them?
[3] In Meguiar's promotional video regarding Diamond cut compound they said it will also wok easily on scratch resistant paint finish.

[jdscooby]

Mike – This is a great article! I’ve not only corrected many vehicles equipped with finickey clears, but ones with the notorious (and misrepresented) CeramiClear finish. This finish is actually a joint effort of PPG and Mercedes of Germany. PPG also makes/has made a few other similar clears for BMW 5, 6 & 7 Series (Powered Clear) and Ferrari (I can’t recall the name), Infinity (Self Healing), Nissan (Scratch Guard).

Mercedes is the only manufacturer using CeramiClear on most of their overseas manufactured vehicles. Mercedes produced in the US, such as their ML , GL and GLK trucks, do not have CeramiClear as well as any vehicle with a Carbon Fiber substrate like the Black Series and SLR which is actually painted in England (McClaren). As a matter of fact, I’ve been told my one of the PPG factory reps that the clear on the SLR (which is extremely soft) can actually be reflowed with a dedicated heat lamp making it more rigid.

The nano-particles in the CeramiClear system is not only in place on the top surface portion of the clearcoat, but throughout the entire clearcoat surface, but for the most part the “hard” attributes are highly concentrated in the upper .2-.3 mils of the surface. So, this special feature can be removed with heavy buffing and/or sanding. Because this surface is so hard in nature, it would take multiple hard buffing sessions to conquer this.

Mercedes started using CeramiClear finishes around 2003 and can be identified by inspection of their Vin tag located on the driver’s door jam. Look to the paint code and it should have a “C” indicating that it is indeed CeramiClear.



Despite what Eric mentioned, CeramiClear can and is being applied in the refinish industry. I actually know of 2 shops in the S. Florida area that are spraying CeramiClear and charging a premium for it too. Hope this helps!

My 2007 GL450 has a paint code of C693 built in Alabama

[Mike Phillips]

[1] If they are scratch resistance then how do they get scratched?

Scratch-resistant is different than scratch-proof.

They will still scratch. Be careful.

[2] If both the paint finishes [regular clear-coat & ceramic-lair] are going to get scratched then why don't automobile manufacturer uses the clear coat finish as it will be economical to them?

The scratch resistant clears are a cool paint, the problem with ALL FACTORY paints is they are too too thin for people like us that work on them. Park them in a garage and never drive them so they don't ever see any wear-n-tear and no problems. Problem is that isn't real life.

[3] In Meguiar's promotional video regarding Diamond cut compound they said it will also wok easily on scratch resistant paint finish.

Lots of products will "easily work" on any paint systems... the problem I pointed out was the scratch resistant part of the paint is in the very upper layer and if you break through this you no longer have the cool benefit that makes the paint cool to start with.

Take read-through my first post again...

I don't have any good answers, just a rant that car manufactures don't put enough paint on their cars and the paint they do put on their cars should be a paint WE CAN ALL WORK ON EASILY!

Note: Not yelling at you when I use all capital letters, it's just me ranting about the problem with car manufactures putting thin paint on all their cars.

[NYCLR3]

Checked my car and I have C775, which is the iridium silver. I guess i will be sticking to hand polishing/waxing and abandoning my GG 6", as it would be my first machine.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I wouldn't polish at all, any paint codes with "C". It's not worth it.

[Mike Phillips]

Checked my car and I have C775, which is the iridium silver. I guess i will be sticking to hand polishing/waxing and abandoning my GG 6", as it would be my first machine.

I would still machine polish a car with a machine that has this finish. I would be aware of anyone asking to have their car detailed if someone else already butchered it.

I personally think the Ceramiclear paints polish up very nicely and you cannot outperform the machine with your hand for gloss and clarity.

Just follow this sage advice,


"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Also, take ownership of the car washing process and focus on the task at hand when washing your car's delicate, thin and expensive paint.

[Impressions]

I wouldn't polish at all, any paint codes with "C". It's not worth it.

Mark, I'm not sure I would agree. I will probably stick to M4500 and a LC Crimson HT pad for those cars.
That process should be mild enough to give good results on a "new" cars finish, now older models that have been done previously I might tend to agree with you

[NYCLR3]

I am the original owner of the car and have cared for it mostly myself, with the exception of a few passes through a car wash during the winter months. Being that it is silver it shows very few swirls and holograms. I have clayed it, used p21s paintwork cleanser, #845 and PowerLock. I am doing this as a hobby and want to spend more on supplies than fixing my self inflicted damage. I think I am going to pick up Menzerna Finish Polish PO85RD to clean up winter damage, but still after reading this can't make the plunge to a polisher, unless someone else convinces me otherwise. I really want one though.