Clearcoat Fracturing versus Clearcoat Failure

[erichaley]

Regarding the crows feet, and I suppose the fracturing as well, would a coating like Opti-Coat help prevent it from getting any worse? Maybe buy them some time? I know it certainly isn't going to get any better...

[Mike Phillips]

Question about clear coat cracking. On my Mom's 2002 Explorer, there is clear coat cracking on the hood.

My question is,

would there be a problem if I used a machine polisher on the hood?

Here is a picture:

Anyone?

Sorry your question was missed Matt.... we aim to please but once in a while we miss a post here and there...


Here's the answer to your question...

It's safe to polish a panel with paint cracking. The downside is all the cracks will fill up with compound and/or polish residue and because most compounds and polishes are white in color the residue will make the cracks stand out like a sore thumb.

One option would be to use a gray colored polish and then use a black wax.

[Mike Phillips]

Regarding the crows feet, and I suppose the fracturing as well, would a coating like Opti-Coat help prevent it from getting any worse? Maybe buy them some time? I know it certainly isn't going to get any better...

This is just my opinion....

If the "paint system" on a car is suffering from paint cracking, the cracking is going to run its course until all the cracking that's going to take place does take place.

Just a guess on my part but the cracking could be the result of expansion and contraction with a paint system that is brittle instead of flexible.

Jason Rose explains paint this way,

Paint is a semi-permeable elastic membrane.

Swelling, stretching, and shrinking happens a lot more than people think.

Cracking could be a sign of paint that is simply coming apart instead of stretching.


If an entire panel is affected by this issue then applying something on top of it will not stop what's happening inside of it.


Just a guess on my part. One thing for sure, if a person is not going to have a panel showing paint cracking re-painted then the next best thing would be to keep the paint polished and sealed with something, either a wax, synthetic paint sealant or coating.


Sometimes something is better than nothing...

[stilltipping3]

First the answer to your above question and that is,

"no"


Once the paint has cracks like seen in the above pictures the paint is now past the point of no return. Applying any type of oily glaze or non-abrasive polish won't do anything to undo the damage or even stop any future cracking....

What I was told by a good friend in this industry as it relates to modern clear coat paints and non-abrasive, pure polishes or body shop safe glazes is that when a clear coat finish is "brand new" either a factory finish or a repaint, and it has not been sanded or cut with an abrasive compound or polish, that at this point in time the clear layer of paint is its hardest, densest and most impermeable.

With time, wear-n-tear and exposure to the elements, the clear layer becomes more open via swirls, scratches, oxidation and interstices which are microscopic cracks or fissures.

The point being that the physical condition or characteristics of new paints change with time.

Someone once asked me if there were any benefits to applying a non-abrasive, pure polish or bodyshop safe glaze to a brand new clear coat and the answer is for the most part "no" except to create a glossy appearance.

But the part most people miss is this...

A brand new paint job shouldn't need anything to make it look good, it should look good right off the assembly line or right out of the paint booth assuming in the case of the latter that the painter is experienced and has his paint process and paint booth dialed-in.





Definitely, the paint is more open and thus liquids and gasses can theoretically more easily pass through the paint.

Applying a non-abrasive, pure polish or bodyshop glaze might help to mask the scratches and improve the appearance of the paint. But since non-abrasive, pure polishes and bodyshop safe glazes are water soluble, the masking effect will be only temporary at best and if the product dries white then it could end up revealing the defects, not hiding them.

My neighbor has major crows feet and now I know I cant help them. I always knew this but wanted to think that I could do something. Well, guess it goes to the paint booth then. Thank u

[tuscarora dave]

Regarding the crows feet, and I suppose the fracturing as well, would a coating like Opti-Coat help prevent it from getting any worse? Maybe buy them some time? I know it certainly isn't going to get any better...

I applied Opti-Coat 2.0 to my Buick's paint in an attempt to delay the onset of clear coat fracturing. Not really knowing at what rate the progression of the problem would have been otherwise, it's a bit hard to say whether it slowed it down or not. It is very very glossy clear coat fracturing though...

[Hoytman]

Dave,
I like your 'fogginess' term and assume you tie it what appears to be light oxidation, a different issue from the straight line appearance of fracturing or sanding marks?

The reason I ask is...

You probably have some pictures via email of my black hood with similar issues. With my home computer down, I can't post them, but perhaps if you have those photo's you could.

...I too thought that my problem had been solved after compounding and polishing. It's true that while perhaps what you and I both thought were fractures in my black clear coat could really have be sanding marks that were filled by fillers, or oils, in M205. After applying M205 and then opti-seal, it wasn't until it was well apparent that all protection was gone that the fractures, and/or sanding marks reappeared. However, it's not the fractures/sanding marks that baffle me. What baffles me are the spots of fogginess that have returned...spots (large areas the size of a mf towel) as well. This fogginess is a seperate issue aside from the fractures or straightline sanding marks, which ever they may be.

Sometimes I wonder if those areas of fogginess aren't areas where a finer sanding paper was used, and the lines of more course papers. I'm not sure what to think.

I am uncertain as to why these foggy areas reared their ugly head again...and in a way I'm glad I chose to neglent the paint to see if indeed any protection from polishing oils, and/or a sealant would mask an unknown paint issue. Indeed, the polishing oils and sealant did appear to mask an issue, or some other issue is going on.

The next order of operations is to recompound, repolish, then apply opti-coat to see if these problems dissappear for good. If not, it's on to a repaint of the hood and roof.

[tuscarora dave]

Dave,
I like your 'fogginess' term and assume you tie it what appears to be light oxidation, a different issue from the straight line appearance of fracturing or sanding marks?

The reason I ask is...

You probably have some pictures via email of my black hood with similar issues. With my home computer down, I can't post them, but perhaps if you have those photo's you could.

...I too thought that my problem had been solved after compounding and polishing. It's true that while perhaps what you and I both thought were fractures in my black clear coat could really have be sanding marks that were filled by fillers, or oils, in M205. After applying M205 and then opti-seal, it wasn't until it was well apparent that all protection was gone that the fractures, and/or sanding marks reappeared. However, it's not the fractures/sanding marks that baffle me. What baffles me are the spots of fogginess that have returned...spots (large areas the size of a mf towel) as well. This fogginess is a seperate issue aside from the fractures or straightline sanding marks, which ever they may be.

Sometimes I wonder if those areas of fogginess aren't areas where a finer sanding paper was used, and the lines of more course papers. I'm not sure what to think.

I am uncertain as to why these foggy areas reared their ugly head again...and in a way I'm glad I chose to neglent the paint to see if indeed any protection from polishing oils, and/or a sealant would mask an unknown paint issue. Indeed, the polishing oils and sealant did appear to mask an issue, or some other issue is going on.

The next order of operations is to recompound, repolish, then apply opti-coat to see if these problems dissappear for good. If not, it's on to a repaint of the hood and roof.

From what I recall Bill, from the phone conversations we had during your working on that project, you were using a rotary and wool pad with M-105 and at times shrinking your work sections down in size to just a few inches at a time before spurring your wool pad clean to chop through all of that heavy oxidation that was on your Blazer, TrailBlazer...

I just can't imagine any sanding marks surviving that treatment. Did the marks return over time? Not the fogginess but the fracturing/sanding marks...?

I'll take a look back through my emails but I'm pretty sure those emails are long gone.

[Hoytman]

From what I recall Bill, from the phone conversations we had during your working on that project, you were using a rotary and wool pad with M-105 and at times shrinking your work sections down in size to just a few inches at a time before spurring your wool pad clean to chop through all of that heavy oxidation that was on your Blazer, TrailBlazer...

That's correct, Dave. However, most that heavy stuff was on the roof. The foggy areas I'm referring to were on the hood.

I just can't imagine any sanding marks surviving that treatment. Did the marks return over time? Not the fogginess but the fracturing/sanding marks...?

As you and I discussed, the fracturing itself would not disappear because it's all the way through the clear. I accepted that, and then expected to see it return; it did just as you predicted. However, like you stated above, I couldn't see any foggy areas surviving the rotary/wool/M105 treatment, but it too came back. I think that is very interesting. I'll try and get some more pics of it posted.

Hope all is well with you my friend. Give me a call this weekend, or some night this week.

[Hoytman]

Some areas of the paint are seeing a return of some foggy areas, but I've yet to notice any of the fracturing type marks yet. I'll know more when spring time comes and I'll post more pictures then, but here's a few before the transformation.





You can almost see hatch mark type fractures or sanding marks in this photo below.




Those cloudy areas are certainly rearing their ugly head again. I didn't get any paint transfer onto the pads, but I'm sure there can't be much life left in that paint.

[hamlyn]

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