Removing Orange Peel & Sanding Marks with the Griots ROP and the Wolfgang Twins

[Mike Phillips]

fantastic write up! may i say perhaps your best ever?

Thank you, it took a while to do this project as I had to keep removing and then replacing the tape grid as close to the original location each time plus just doing everything in a controlled manner.

The write-up took longer than the actual sanding, buffing and measuring...

great write up Mike. One questions: for every paint that has orange look must be used #2000, #2500 & #3000?

Depends upon what you're working on?

• Factory paint will be thin and hard.
• Fresh paint out of a body shop will be softer and if you asked for and paid for more paint than a cheapie paint job it will be thicker.

Mike, this "How-To" was incredibly detailed and perfectly documented! I read it awhile back but not the whole thing. I just finished reading it in it's entirety this time. WOW!

Thanks Cory...

Awesome article Mike! I can't believe I never saw this before!

Definitely going to bookmark this one for people who have wet sanding questions in the future.

Rasky

Thanks Chad...


Just to note, I used a very non-aggressive swirl mark remover to remove the sanding marks, (Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover), to show what could be done using just a DA and following the approach.

It would be been a walk in the park to have removed the sanding marks with a more aggressive product like M105 and SurBuf pads or even faster using a rotary buffer with a wool pad but that wasn't the goal of the article... heck anyone can remove sanding marks using aggressive pads, products and tools....

[sohail99]

Hey Mike!

Its been quite some time since a few panels on my car were repainted!

Now I feel like working on these panels.

Here's how the orange peel looks like on the panels










I was having doubts whether I can remove it or not!(btw the bodyshop already sanded and 'refinished'(tried to refinish lol!) but failed!

The paint surface has a very fine texture to it which is severely affecting Distinction Of Image!!

I was thinking maybe sand it with 3000 grit paper or 2500!

What'd you recommend?

[Mike Phillips]

I was thinking maybe sand it with 3000 grit paper or 2500!

What'd you recommend?

Do you have any idea as to how much clear they sprayed? Lots? A little? Heavy coats, thin coats?

If you feel you have enough film build to work with safely, then I would suggest machine sanding using #1500 Grit and then re-sand using #3000 Grit either Meguiar's or 3M sanding/foam finishing discs.

Hand sand where ever you cannot machine sand.

My article here goes over the entire process. One primary difference between Meguiar's Unigrit Discs and 3M Trizact Discs are that with the Meguiar's Discs there is a break-in time before the discs start to sand or remove material. With the 3M Discs, they start sanding the moment they come into contact with the paint. Not a deal breaker difference, just something to be aware of.


Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips


Remember, only sand where you can safely run your buffing pad, this means avoid sanding right next to edges. Sanding is easy, that's putting scratches into the paint... the tricky part is getting them out without making any mistakes.

You can sand close to edges but that means taping the edge off so you don't buff through the paint or removing the sanding marks by hand.

[sohail99]

I only have 2 types of sanding discs,

Mirka Abralon 6" 2000grit and 6" 4000 grit discs

According to the painter, they sprayed clearcoat liberally(3-coats) and said that I can compound and polish to my heart's content! lol

I'll be getting Meguiars unigrit finishing papers soon.

Currently I have 3M wet or dry finishing papers(1500, 2000 grit) that I use with meguiars sanding backing pad.

But looking at the sanding pattern on the red El Camino that you did, I feel that 3M papers are a bit more 'harsh'. Thats why I ordered some unigrit papers to get a uniform sanding pattern(just like a proper matte finish!!)

Another prob is that, only a few parts of the door panels are flat, others have curves or have body lines etc.

I'll have to hand sand most of it.

Anyways, I'll be busy next month, so there's plenty of time to ponder over 'How to go about it' and I want to absorb all the knowledge in detail before beginning to sand!

Thanks!

(I have refinished other panels before, but somehow just a lil' bit of orange peel was left on them even though I sanded flat!? )

[Mike Phillips]

I only have 2 types of sanding discs,

Mirka Abralon 6" 2000grit and 6" 4000 grit discs

These actually work great and I love finishing out with the #4000 grit discs as you can see the paint goes from sanded to a sheen that is starting to look polished, that is you can start to see reflections. Of course, #4000 grit sanding marks buff out incredibly easy.

According to the painter, they sprayed clearcoat liberally(3-coats) and said that I can compound and polish to my heart's content! lol

Sounds good... did you tell them you wanted to sand and buff the paint after they gave it back to you?

If not, anyone reading this thread into the future, if you are getting your car painted, AND you are planning on doing some sanding and buffing to the car, then tell your painter that you intend on sanding and buffing the paint after you get it back from them and for this reason you're willing to pay for,

• More paint
• More labor to spray the extra paint
• More time in the paint booth

It requires all of the above to put more paint on a car.

I'll be getting Meguiars unigrit finishing papers soon.

The Nikken brand started out as an electronics grade paper, which is usually deemed to be of higher quality than an automotive grade paper. I know the guy that obtained the marketing rights to this brand back in the 1980's and then sold the rights to Meguiar's. I think I've typed up portions of this story somewhere on the Internet.

Be sure to soak them before you use them, you can even soak them overnight as the backing is paper impregnated with a latex rubber so it won't fall apart even after years of soaking in water. (some papers fall apart after they become saturated with water).

Currently I have 3M wet or dry finishing papers(1500, 2000 grit) that I use with meguiars sanding backing pad.

But looking at the sanding pattern on the red El Camino that you did, I feel that 3M papers are a bit more 'harsh'. Thats why I ordered some unigrit papers to get a uniform sanding pattern(just like a proper matte finish!!)

Machine sanding, just like machine polishing will always do a better job than the human hand.

Another prob is that, only a few parts of the door panels are flat, others have curves or have body lines etc.

I'll have to hand sand most of it.

Take your time and you'll be okay...

Anyways, I'll be busy next month, so there's plenty of time to ponder over 'How to go about it' and I want to absorb all the knowledge in detail before beginning to sand!

Thanks!

Maybe just tackle a panel at a time, that way you can work all the way through the process and this will likely teach you a few lessons you can then use on the next panel(s).

(I have refinished other panels before, but somehow just a lil' bit of orange peel was left on them even though I sanded flat!? )

If you sanded flat, then you should have a flat surface with excellent DOI after buff-out.

Not sure what to tell you about this?

[sohail99]

^Wow!!! Thanks a lot for the info!!

I'll start with one panel at a time then!

Thanks a lot!

Will report back here!

[sohail99]

Hey Mike, I was just inspecting my paint under some fluorescent light and I came across an area of, what appears to be very fine paint texture which is severely affecting DOI.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about -



Under the sun, the DOI 'appears' to be excellent, but up close it still has a texture to it!

When not focusing on the surface, the texture is negligible!



Its kinda irking me! Does it need more refinement?

What would you recommend?

(btw I'm trying to perfect the paint on all panels before applying CQuartz or opti-coat to them)

[Mike Phillips]

Hope you don't mind but I cropped out the important part of your picture and replaced the two massive pictures with one that's actually viewable.

Question: Where you're finger is pointing, is this after you've sanded and buffed?

[sohail99]

Oops! I edited it again, thinking that my pics/post messed up! Sorry

btw there are a few swirls (micromarring) there(from inconsiderate ppl touching the car when it has a layer of dust on it! ).

This panel was repainted > wetsanded and polished. At that time on inspection with a brinkmann light I didn't find any imperfections and the DOI was impressive too!

I suddenly noticed this on really close inspection with fluorescent dim light!

[Mike Phillips]

I've worked on paint that even after sanding flat, after you compound it the resulting finish is always grainy or pebble-like, as shown in your first picture...

I don't know why this happens but it's related to the paint itself. Not sure if this is what's happening to you but you can do some testing if you have any areas that are still safe to sand flat.

Place a tape-line down a panel and sand the paint flat using your #1500 and follow with your #3000, get the paint visually flat by sanding.

Now add a new tape-line 90 degrees across the sanded area and then just compound one section.

Now you can compare,

• Un-sanded
• Sanded
• Sanded and compounded

If the sanded area looks flat as can be but the sanded and compounded area reverts back to a grainy appearance, then my guess is that the paint is where the problem is and this just goes to show something I always type about and that is some paints are more polishable than others.

Just guessing on the above because I'm not there to do the testing with you...

I know the Hoods we use for our classes and I use for product testing sand and buff excellent with mirror like surfaces... the paint is a PPG paint.