The case against multi-year ceramic paint coatings - Road Grime = Surface Staining Daily Drivers by Mike Phillips

[Finick]

What swanicyouth mentions above, about where he lives maybe playing a factor, is something I think is really important.

I almost find myself double checking where people live when I start reading a review, because someone talking about their sealant lasting 9 months in California is not applicable to me -at all- living in Maryland.

Someone could get 3 years out of cquartz uk in California, and I don’t think anyone would really be surprised. Place that hardly ever rains and has pretty stellar weather all the time? Take that same car and put it in Michigan for 3 years and see how that coating holds up.

I’ve only tried one coating, PBL diamond paint coating, and it wasn’t a great experience. The stuff is a joke to work with, it flashed nearly instantaneously upon hitting the panel. Maybe if I did it not during the summer(ish) months it would be better. Maybe it’s cause it’s so humid here.

What I can say though, is that when you start investing the time into applying these booster products and babying the coating, where do you draw the line?

I mean some coatings recommend multiple coats. Some have you layering coatings on top of your coating to protect it from issues coatings were known for. What’s next? A second top layer to protect carpro gliss from something? From the outside looking in, it just seems silly. “I’m going to apply 3 layers of this and then top it with two coats of the top coat, only to finally top it off with the maintenance sio2 spray.”

Sure you don’t need to invest in the entire system, but when you don’t it can just be used against you to invalidate your bad experience with the coating.

Optimum is very guilty of this if you ever browse their Facebook group. Any failure of gloss coat basically involves shifting the goal posts as you troubleshoot why it happened. Didn’t use optimum paint prep? Sucks to suck. Didn’t use hyper polish before the optimum paint prep? 🤢 sorry buddy.

Even having said all that, I’d love to try cquartz uk 3.0 sometime, just because it seems to be a good “all in one” coating - according to forensics detailing. Im not against coatings, I just think they take advantage of the hype train, and as a result take advantage of consumers.


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[machz]

I also agree location may be the big factor here. For me living in NH one of the main reasons for using a coating was winter protection. I purchased my car in late November and the snow was already here so I waited for spring and did not get to test in the winter. I coated in April and for the first month the coating looked great and beaded well. But after that the coating seemed to dull and the water had more of a sheeting action. It has been a very humid wet summer and I have to wash at least once a week and now four months later I find myself having to use reload to get good beading and a look that I like. Already I can feel contaminates in the paint with the baggie test and I have had to repair a few small scratches.

I'm not against coatings either and as others have said in some locations they may be great but for me, the difficulty of use and maint don't outweigh the result. I have only used CQuartz so I might try another brand because I really like the idea of a coating.

[Belo]

What I can say though, is that when you start investing the time into applying these booster products and babying the coating, where do you draw the line?

I mean some coatings recommend multiple coats. Some have you layering coatings on top of your coating to protect it from issues coatings were known for. What’s next? A second top layer to protect carpro gliss from something? From the outside looking in, it just seems silly. “I’m going to apply 3 layers of this and then top it with two coats of the top coat, only to finally top it off with the maintenance sio2 spray.”

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this is where I always end up. It's basically a value proposition. For years I've been an annual polish and seal guy. 2 steps after wash and clay. This is on my 3 season car. Throughout the summer I maintenance wash and recently have stepped up my game with some extender spray waxes, but the protection lasts and the job, while time consuming isn't difficult and the results are there.

Everytime I look into coatings I get turned off by all the prep work, conditions required to apply the coating and then maintenance steps. I'm not sure I've yet been convinced there is any time savings or benefits for the cost of a coating vs a polish and seal.

[Mike Phillips]

but have used Pinnacle; which most would agree is similar enough to be almost interchangeable. Maybe it's where I live, but the first huge snow driving on salted roads and that coating was toast on the lower panels. Was not impressed - could get the same result from other products with significantly lower cost & effort.

And my experience is exactly opposite - I've used nothing but Pinnacle Black Label on our Merecedes-Benz and love it. The car is parked outside all of the time as we don't have a garage, (Condo), and the coating holds up, washes fast washed easy and dries fast and dries easy.

It's probably been at least a year since I've done anything to the paint on our Mercedes-Benz, I've just been too busy. And "yes" it is time to referesh the exterior, she's been in the shop for a couple of visits and seen some wear-n-tear but just last week we test drove another car with the idea of trading the MB in and the GM of the dealership looked at our Mercedes and said it looked impeccable both inside and out and even under the hood. The entire car, inside and out and under the hood have been taken care of with nothing but Pinnacle Black Label coatings.

And - if and when we do get something different, it's going to get the exact same treatment.

[BudgetPlan1]

I also agree location may be the big factor here.

A Northeastern Winter is the great equalizer. Salt, brine, chemical de-icer's and all manner of other goo eating away at the surface and grimy slush, snow and salt abrading the surface. Tough environment, especially if 95% of your winter use is freeway.

[Eldorado2k]

Is it true that these paint coatings have 9h hardness? Or was that a joke? Because if that’s really what they claim, then that’s as hard as the tempered glass screen protectors they sell for smartphones, and they’re pretty damn solid.

If that’s what they’re seriously claiming then all these excuses about so and so chemical, and a little salt and sleet should be no sweat for a coating, certainly not reasons for excuse.

2yrs. isn’t too much to ask from a coating... Especially when you consider clearcoat can easily last 20-30 yrs. or more. If these coatings really are supposedly 9h hardness then the only concern should be the initial bonding to the paint that could and would eventually fail. Am I way off or crazy to even think this?

[Desertnate]

At the end of the 2yr. stint, are those 2 vehicles passing the baggie test? If you clayed them, were there any contaminants picked up on the claybar?

One of the vehicles I haven't polished out yet, that is a job for when the weather cools of some. However, I noticed today that after being rained on last night the water was still beading pretty good and it still looked nice despite living through two mid-west winters and and about 60K miles worth of driving (yes, 60K in two years...).

The second vehicle which I did polish out did have some contaminates in the clay. However, the contaminates I picked up in the clay after 20-ish months of wearing a coating was SIGNIFICANTLY less than what I used to see after 6 months of using a sealant. When I used a sealant, I'd see heavy contamination on the rear hatch and lower doors from the grime/salt, and moderate contimination of the roof and hood. Coming out of winter, some surfaces felt like sandpaper to the touch. With a coating I'm seeing only traces of contamination being picked up anywhere other than the rear hatch, which has what I'd consider moderate contamination...and this is with a far stickier clay.

Overall, I've not changed my maintenance routine of a coating versus when I used a sealant. I wash just as frequently, but now have less grime to remove. I still use a drying aid to eliminate water spotting after every wash. No vendor specific products, no boosters, nothing fancy. Life if too complicated as it is, and I like to take a minimalist approach.

I will agree with Mike and the reason for this thread in the first place. From a cosmetic perspective two years is probably a bit too long to not give the paint a little TLC. HOWEVER, from a protection standpoint, the products I've used so far will easily go the distance in my mild-ish mid-west climate with the same basic care you'd give a durable sealant.

[Desertnate]

Is it true that these paint coatings have 9h hardness? Or was that a joke? Because if that’s really what they claim, then that’s as hard as the tempered glass screen protectors they sell for smartphones, and they’re pretty damn solid.

I've always questioned this as well. It *might* be that hard, but since the products dry to only a few microns thick I don't any of them offering much protection and I'd never count on it. I have noticed my coated cars don't show wear from washing like my sealed vehicles did, but I figure it's more from the ease of washing and the fact grime slides right off more than any hardness of the product.

If that’s what they’re seriously claiming then all these excuses about so and so chemical, and a little salt and sleet should be no sweat for a coating, certainly not reasons for excuse.

I think the biggest winter issue with coatings is the salt and ice removal coatings getting embedded in the coatings. I've experienced the same complaints many have with the coating appearing to fail during winter on the lower doors, but also found after three or four good handwashings in the spring, the coating behavior returns. Oddly enough this never happened with a sealant.

2yrs. isn’t too much to ask from a coating... Especially when you consider clearcoat can easily last 20-30 yrs. or more. If these coatings really are supposedly 9h hardness then the only concern should be the initial bonding to the paint that could and would eventually fail. Am I way off or crazy to even think this?

I don't think two years is too much for a reputable coating. I don't know if I agree on the clear coat durability. I'd say 20~30 years if properly maintained. For those people who don't protect and keep the paint clean 15 years may be it. When I lived in Hawaii I'd see clear coat failure on cars which were half that old. I'd ignore the whole 9h thing and simply think of a coating as a sealant which lasts much longer...and have pretty cool water sheeting properties.

[swanicyouth]

What swanicyouth mentions above, about where he lives maybe playing a factor, is something I think is really important.

I almost find myself double checking where people live when I start reading a review, because someone talking about their sealant lasting 9 months in California is not applicable to me -at all- living in Maryland.

Someone could get 3 years out of cquartz uk in California, and I don’t think anyone would really be surprised. Place that hardly ever rains and has pretty stellar weather all the time? Take that same car and put it in Michigan for 3 years and see how that coating holds up.

I’ve only tried one coating, PBL diamond paint coating, and it wasn’t a great experience. The stuff is a joke to work with, it flashed nearly instantaneously upon hitting the panel. Maybe if I did it not during the summer(ish) months it would be better. Maybe it’s cause it’s so humid here.

What I can say though, is that when you start investing the time into applying these booster products and babying the coating, where do you draw the line?

I mean some coatings recommend multiple coats. Some have you layering coatings on top of your coating to protect it from issues coatings were known for. What’s next? A second top layer to protect carpro gliss from something? From the outside looking in, it just seems silly. “I’m going to apply 3 layers of this and then top it with two coats of the top coat, only to finally top it off with the maintenance sio2 spray.”

Sure you don’t need to invest in the entire system, but when you don’t it can just be used against you to invalidate your bad experience with the coating.

Optimum is very guilty of this if you ever browse their Facebook group. Any failure of gloss coat basically involves shifting the goal posts as you troubleshoot why it happened. Didn’t use optimum paint prep? Sucks to suck. Didn’t use hyper polish before the optimum paint prep? 🤢 sorry buddy.

Even having said all that, I’d love to try cquartz uk 3.0 sometime, just because it seems to be a good “all in one” coating - according to forensics detailing. Im not against coatings, I just think they take advantage of the hype train, and as a result take advantage of consumers.


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Beautifully said. If the coating works for you where you live - use it if you like it. It just doesn’t work in snow for me. Part of this is why I say chemical resistance is a joke - because they don’t hold up to whatever is being dumped as salt around here - several traditional LSPs do better. One that works great is Synergy - maybe best of the coating technology IMHO.

I’ve been around a while - not as long as some - but long enough. I’m no longer hoarding products or spending tons of dollars to try the latest and greatest cuz it’s fun. I just want predictable results that are easy. To me, nothing is worse than spending time to do something and it doesn’t live up to its claims.

I’d rather just use what’s cheap, easy, durable, and predictable in results. Be it Duragloss, Collinite, FK 1000p, etc; - you know this stuff will last. Maybe not 3 years - but the overall effort is LESS compared to installing a coating and using booster products and results are stellar. And, if it needs replenishing - it can be done in minutes with no special prep or products. Same with durable spray sealants in summer - 10 mins or less to top off whenever to get back to brand new.

TBH - to all the guys detailing for dollars or manufacturing coatings - I’d be all over coatings too. It’s a huge up-sell over wash and wax or just making wax. Anything that says “silica”, “SiO2”, or coating on the label is sold for a significant premium. But I’m just giving you my thoughts on both types of products and what’s realistic involving real world benefit, cost, and effort. I have no financial interest if people buy coatings or not.

And my experience is exactly opposite - I've used nothing but Pinnacle Black Label on our Merecedes-Benz and love it. The car is parked outside all of the time as we don't have a garage, (Condo), and the coating holds up, washes fast washed easy and dries fast and dries easy.

It's probably been at least a year since I've done anything to the paint on our Mercedes-Benz, I've just been too busy. And "yes" it is time to referesh the exterior, she's been in the shop for a couple of visits and seen some wear-n-tear but just last week we test drove another car with the idea of trading the MB in and the GM of the dealership looked at our Mercedes and said it looked impeccable both inside and out and even under the hood. The entire car, inside and out and under the hood have been taken care of with nothing but Pinnacle Black Label coatings.

And - if and when we do get something different, it's going to get the exact same treatment.

Maybe it’s where we live. I dunno. But, I’m not a hater. I think Synergy is some of the best performing stuff out there.

[JFire72]

I also agree location may be the big factor here. For me living in NH one of the main reasons for using a coating was winter protection. I purchased my car in late November and the snow was already here so I waited for spring and did not get to test in the winter. I coated in April and for the first month the coating looked great and beaded well. But after that the coating seemed to dull and the water had more of a sheeting action. It has been a very humid wet summer and I have to wash at least once a week and now four months later I find myself having to use reload to get good beading and a look that I like. Already I can feel contaminates in the paint with the baggie test and I have had to repair a few small scratches.

I'm not against coatings either and as others have said in some locations they may be great but for me, the difficulty of use and maint don't outweigh the result. I have only used CQuartz so I might try another brand because I really like the idea of a coating.

I'm in the exact same scenario with the same product. Got my Durango last October, and the weather didn't cooperate at all, and then of course winter hit, I live in Michigan BTW.

Waited till Spring like you did too, and applied 2 coats of the C.Quartz UK. I did everything that was recommended with wait times between coats, and even waited 3 days before it left the garage after the final coat. Applied Reload to it then, and was happy for about a day or two, then it rained. The slickness was gone, and water was sheeting already. Tried Reload again on it, and the results were the same. I machined it off and just used what I had laying around for a couple of months.

This past weekend, I polished it up and put Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant on it. Not only does it look great, but I we had a heavy rain yesterday, and it's still clean and slick. I've heard the longevity of it is pretty good too, so now I just need to maintain it.

I don't mind doing a paint sealant every few months. I also like spending some detailing time on my rides anyway. As far as ceramics go, I've heard the consumer grade of at least C.Quartz, isn't as good as one a professional detailer can get ahold of. I might try a ceramic coating down the road again, but for now, I'm more than happy with the paint sealant I just used.

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