The case against multi-year ceramic paint coatings - Road Grime = Surface Staining Daily Drivers by Mike Phillips

[swanicyouth]

For wheels I actually use a coating type product - Car Pro Hydro Foam. It's pretty costly - but it's so worth it. It's a soap & "coating" (Hydro 2) in one product.

So, I dilute it 1:9 in a foaming spray trigger bottle & clean my wheels with it. Wheels are always clean, glossy, and bead water like no other. But don't get confused. This is not a coating. This an easily renewable / replaceable product that actually makes my life EASIER because it takes the place of 2 products (traditional wheel cleaner & wheel protectant).

Besides that, it works wonderfully for cleaning and protecting any external surface on a car in 1 step: grills, cowls, wiper arms, trim, glass, exhaust tips - whatever... I even use it to wash my tractor. You don't need anything special to use it and the results are always predictable. I've been using this stuff literally since the day it came out and it has so many applications. I use it on anything besides car paint.

It's not perfect though. It cost a LOT more than car soap oz per oz. I don't use it on paint because it will streak in any type of sun. However, it's a tool when used appropriately that is just awesome & makes your life simpler. Removing wheels to coat them periodically is a huge PIA. Use this product to clean yr wheels every other time & they will stay more hydrophobic than any coating past it's first month or so.

Of course it's "soap" - so it's prolly not going to work awesome on filthy brake encrusted wheels. But for anyone who details their own cars frequently - the best investment you can make for clean wheels isn't a specific wheel cleaner or protectant - it's zero dust ceramic brake pads. This turns cleaning wheels into a job as easy as cleaning paint, making any soap effective. You will save time, money, and headaches over trying to keep constantly dusty filthy wheels clean and protected with traditional metallic type brake pads.

[Eldorado2k]

People talk about beading on the wheels, but IMO the wheels beading isn’t really noticeable or even important. If those spray coatings made it so the wheels could be cleaned with a simple hose off with water then I’d be excited about them, but if I still have to agitate then I may as well stick with Megs Wheel Brightener and as long as you’re maintaining them every 7-10 days it is a simple spray on hose off cleaning and all I’ve got is the garden hose nozzle. If you’ve got a power washer there’s even less doubt it’ll work touchless as long as it’s not a crazy long time between cleanings.

[Belo]

Agree. The only place I use it is on the wheels. A cash cow for the installers and manufacturers.

ditto. while expensive, hydro blue on my wheels was the coolest "new" thing I've tried in a long time.

People talk about beading on the wheels, but IMO the wheels beading isn’t really noticeable or even important. If those spray coatings made it so the wheels could be cleaned with a simple hose off with water then I’d be excited about them, but if I still have to agitate then I may as well stick with Megs Wheel Brightener and as long as you’re maintaining them every 7-10 days it is a simple spray on hose off cleaning and all I’ve got is the garden hose nozzle. If you’ve got a power washer there’s even less doubt it’ll work touchless as long as it’s not a crazy long time between cleanings.

I agree that beading isn't important on the wheels, but I do think the 5 minutes it takes to apply something like hydro blue does help repeal some dirt and while not a spray clean option, definitely makes it easier to wash.

[DetailZeus]

People talk about beading on the wheels, but IMO the wheels beading isn’t really noticeable or even important. If those spray coatings made it so the wheels could be cleaned with a simple hose off with water then I’d be excited about them, but if I still have to agitate then I may as well stick with Megs Wheel Brightener and as long as you’re maintaining them every 7-10 days it is a simple spray on hose off cleaning and all I’ve got is the garden hose nozzle. If you’ve got a power washer there’s even less doubt it’ll work touchless as long as it’s not a crazy long time between cleanings.

This is actually how I feel about LSP's in general. The number one thing I ask of them is to make my car easier to clean. Resist bugs, bird bombs, waters spots, and miscellaneous grime. I'm not looking for touchless but I do want as much stuff to come off as possible with my initial rinse. I think water beading is great for letting you know your LSP is still there but I think there is a point of diminishing returns when you try to get super ultra hydrophobic beading. I saved an old quote from our fellow chemist that used to post here,

[...] You have mistaken water repellency for protection. Repelling water is great but this is not self cleaning. Self cleaning is in fact the absolute opposite. Ideal self-cleaning coatings have zero water repellency. Such coatings work by water being strongly attracted to the surface. As such, water will get `between` soiling and the surface and thus it washes away easily. This isn`t something open to debate, that is simply how it works. Water repellent finishes are actually `difficult to dirty`, not so much `easy to clean`. Dirt is typically suspended in water and because water does not stick, the dirt is inhibited likewise. Unfortunately, when the dirt does stick or when you get air borne oily soils (for instance exhaust gases), the water is unable to wet the surface effectively so the surface actually becomes more difficult to clean! Unfortunately users love beads and a self cleaning surface will simply not provide this. Additionally, it is a lot harder to make durable and strongly hydrophillic (self cleaning) surfaces. [...]

I post this because I think it's relevant the surface staining Mike talks about in his initial post, and just something to think about as we encourage our brands to continue to push the limits on water beading.

[Eldorado2k]

This is actually how I feel about LSP's in general. The number one thing I ask of them is to make my car easier to clean. Resist bugs, bird bombs, waters spots, and miscellaneous grime. I'm not looking for touchless but I do want as much stuff to come off as possible with my initial rinse. I think water beading is great for letting you know your LSP is still there but I think there is a point of diminishing returns when you try to get super ultra hydrophobic beading. I saved an old quote from our fellow chemist that used to post here,

I completely agree with your description of what you’re looking to get from a lsp.. And I’d totally be interested in using a spray coating on the wheels if they could survive through being sprayed and rinsed with so called “harsh” wheel cleaners, because that’s what I’d use to clean my wheels even if they were protected because I’ll pass on getting down and having to agitate if and whenever possible... But as far as I know they won’t survive being sprayed with a harsh wheel cleaner so for me it’s just not something I see a benefit in using.

Btw, there’s a chance I could be completely wrong about some of those spray on hose off coatings not being able to survive through “harsh” wheel cleaners, because IIRC Jeff from Gyeon said something about their version of it can handle any chemical between the PH levels 3-12 or something like that, which would make Wheel Brightener a welcome possibility. I haven’t had any way of testing this so I don’t know for sure.🤷🏻


...All that being said, I still find myself going through the whole bucket of wheel brushes about 85% of the time when it comes to cleaning wheels & tires. Why? Because I’m OCD about detailing, especially wheels & tires + vacuuming.lol.

[Justin at Final Inspection]

I have used Hydro Blue and Hydro2 on wheels with some success. And actually for whatever reason I have had instance's where it caused brake dust to stick a bit more. Someone actually made a video on YouTube describing it too.

I do however strongly believe and promote a high quality wheel coating. Won't change my opinion on that. I have plenty of clients and my own vehicles that have fully coated wheels and it makes cleaning them a breeze. Typically soapy water and a quick agitation gets them clean. Hell my wife's car gets washed maybe once a month and she does upwards of 1500+ miles a month. Here wheels clean up in a matter of minutes. Also I find it helpful on vehicles with factory Brembo style brakes that seem to spit out tons of dust.

[swanicyouth]

People talk about beading on the wheels, but IMO the wheels beading isn’t really noticeable or even important. If those spray coatings made it so the wheels could be cleaned with a simple hose off with water then I’d be excited about them, but if I still have to agitate then I may as well stick with Megs Wheel Brightener and as long as you’re maintaining them every 7-10 days it is a simple spray on hose off cleaning and all I’ve got is the garden hose nozzle. If you’ve got a power washer there’s even less doubt it’ll work touchless as long as it’s not a crazy long time between cleanings.

I feel when you see "beading" on wheels - it means there is some protection on there & it makes them significantly easier to clean. Besides, it does look cool & the spray SI02 sealants do add some gloss.

I have Megs Wheel Bright and the stuff is just horrible to work with. You can use it almost touchlessly if you have low dust brake pads - I agree. It's fairly cheap as well. It's toxic & I think I just feel better about spraying something that isn't so nasty. Realistically, we are all not using gloves and respirators when we use this stuff - as you're supposed to.

And, the thing w/ WB is - you never really know for SURE if it will damage something used over time. I know it's pretty safe if used correctly - but over time will it's use etch or fade your wheel paint - who knows?

But, TBH - WB works significantly better than any of these $20 a pint iron attacking wheel cleaners. If I was a pro - I'd be using it frequently.

[Eldorado2k]

I feel when you see "beading" on wheels - it means there is some protection on there & it makes them significantly easier to clean. Besides, it does look cool & the spray SI02 sealants do add some gloss.

I have Megs Wheel Bright and the stuff is just horrible to work with. You can use it almost touchlessly if you have low dust brake pads - I agree. It's fairly cheap as well. It's toxic & I think I just feel better about spraying something that isn't so nasty. Realistically, we are all not using gloves and respirators when we use this stuff - as you're supposed to.

And, the thing w/ WB is - you never really know for SURE if it will damage something used over time. I know it's pretty safe if used correctly - but over time will it's use etch or fade your wheel paint - who knows?

But, TBH - WB works significantly better than any of these $20 a pint iron attacking wheel cleaners. If I was a pro - I'd be using it frequently.

I agree with you as far as needing to be on extra precaution when using it, and you’re right we don’t always have a mask handy when the time comes... 1 thing I always make sure to do is either have my cat indoors or if not I spray a couple of warning shots with the jet nozzle under the vehicle to make sure she’s not anywhere near the vehicle when I begin spraying wheel cleaner.

And just last weekend I got reminded to never spray that stuff when there’s a bit of wind blowing in your direction.. Not fun, that goes for both D143 Non Acid Wheel Cleaner and Wheel Brightener, as they both have a level 3 hazard on the label and it’s smart to always be aware of it.

I think a part of me gets a bit of satisfaction being able to knock through the heaviest dirt and grime on the vehicle with an equally powerful cleaner.

[PaulMys]

I agree with you as far as needing to be on extra precaution when using it, and you’re right we don’t always have a mask handy when the time comes... 1 thing I always make sure to do is either have my cat indoors or if not I spray a couple of warning shots with the jet nozzle under the vehicle to make sure she’s not anywhere near the vehicle when I begin spraying wheel cleaner.

And just last weekend I got reminded to never spray that stuff when there’s a bit of wind blowing in your direction.. Not fun, that goes for both D143 Non Acid Wheel Cleaner and Wheel Brightener, as they both have a level 3 hazard on the label and it’s smart to always be aware of it.

I think a part of me gets a bit of satisfaction being able to knock through the heaviest dirt and grime on the vehicle with an equally powerful cleaner.

Lmao @ "warning shots"...

[Finick]

I’m actually a big fan of using d143 inside of a pump sprayer because I feel like it doesn’t atomize the product as well as the tolco sprayers I use. Or the ones on my meguiars bottles. I might use a little bit more, but honestly the 56oz I mix up seems to last for awhile.

Idk by how much, but I definitely notice a ton less fumes and kickback when I’m dousing my tires/wheels.

I’d like to grab one for wheel brightener but I’m just so lazy


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