Seeing Dots! Help! - Pinhole or Solvent Pop? Common Paint Issue

**ph16** · 11-08-2009, 05:08 PM

Seeing Dots! Help! - Pinhole or Solvent Pop? Common Paint Issue

Started polishing the hood today and had to stop because when I was done, I saw these tiny little dots all over that I couldn't remove. Here's the pictures.

Before starting:

After polishing (the swirls are gone but these dots are present):

The process I used was that I clay bared the hood and then used Menz PO85RD and grey pad with the PC on 5. (I put the product on only after misting the (new) CCS pad with the XMT conditioner.) After wiping that off (and it took a lot of effort because it was dry in places), I used a blue pad with the same Menz product and same PC setting. That wiped off a lot easier. The working time of the Menz product was like 30 seconds before it started to dry. I tried using more product. I tried using less product. The pad was not spinning like it should have either. I don't know what I'm doing wrong there because I've watched the process of Mike Phillips using the PC and it seemed like he had twice the working time that I had - different products though.

When I pulled the vehicle out into the sun, I saw these dots. I tried using the gray pad again but still no luck with the dots. I'm starting to question if they were there to begin with and I just didn't use an aggressive enough product from the start to remove them. I have some PO106FA but didn't want to go any further until I consulted with the forum.

Does anyone know what these dots are and if I put them in the finish? And does anyone know why the working time of the Menz product was so short?

**NotZeroSix** · 11-08-2009, 05:16 PM

Those holes youre seeing are called solvent popping.Theres nothing you can do to them other than respray the panel. Though unattractive, do not worry cause these are quite common on some vehicles.

Heres a quote from Mike Philips

Originally Posted by Mike Philips

The tiny craters or pin holes you see are more than likely what' called Solvent Popping, which occurred when the paint was sprayed. These pin holes are actually present on the before side except because there are so many swirls in the before side, the swirls hide the solvent popping pin holes.

No amount of buffing will remove solvent popping because the holes are throughout the layer of paint, not just on the surface. Compounding and polishing more and more will just remove more paint and reveal a greater depth of the pin holes, it won't make the problem go away.

Keep in mind this is a very high resolution camera and it's being held very close to the paint. After polishing and waxing and then looking at the paint from a normal distance you don't really see them. The only fix is to repaint the entire car or the affected panels.

**ph16** · 11-08-2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by NotZeroSix

Those holes youre seeing are called solvent popping.Theres nothing you can do to them other than respray the panel. Dont worry, cause these are common on Hard clear coat volvo s40.

Heres a quote from Mike Philips
[qoute]The tiny craters or pin holes you see are more than likely what' called Solvent Popping, which occurred when the paint was sprayed. These pin holes are actually present on the before side except because there are so many swirls in the before side, the swirls hide the solvent popping pin holes.

No amount of buffing will remove solvent popping because the holes are throughout the layer of paint, not just on the surface. Compounding and polishing more and more will just remove more paint and reveal a greater depth of the pin holes, it won't make the problem go away.

Keep in mind this is a very high resolution camera and it's being held very close to the paint. After polishing and waxing and then looking at the paint from a normal distance you don't really see them. The only fix is to repaint the entire car or the affected panels. [/qoute]

Thank you Not0, I'm relieved that I didn't do this but I'm also dismayed that my hood looks like this now. It's true, the swirl marks do hide them. I know it's only a toyota truck and not a ferrari but I want my finish to look awesome. Rats!!!!!

Any idea on the working time issue?

**ASPHALT ROCKET** · 11-08-2009, 05:44 PM

Has the hood been repainted, if not, they are not solvent pop spots. They are more than likely from the sand blasting effect you get from debris from driving on the road. They become very obvious after a vehicle is polished because they stand out against the shiney paint. There was a thread on this before, Jason(DeepGloss) and I explained this on that thread also.

**ph16** · 11-08-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by ASPHALT ROCKET

Has the hood been repainted, if not, they are not solvent pop spots. They are more than likely from the sand blasting effect you get from debris from driving on the road. They become very obvious after a vehicle is polished because they stand out against the shiney paint. There was a thread on this before, Jason(DeepGloss) and I explained this on that thread also.

It is the factory paint. I guess they could be from road debris because I did not see them on my test area which was the tailgate. The dots are pretty consistent all over the hood. Do you have a link to the thread you mentioned?

edit: is this the link?
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...hite-dots.html

**ASPHALT ROCKET** · 11-08-2009, 06:11 PM

Thats the thread. I have a few on the hood of my vette also. Like I said it is not solvent pop, it is the sand blasting effect while driving from the debris in the air.

**JohnHenry** · 11-10-2009, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by ASPHALT ROCKET

Has the hood been repainted, if not, they are not solvent pop spots.

You sure about that, AR?

I don't know what the spots are on PH16's car, but I find solvent pops (pinholes) on factory paint all the time. I've had more than one discussion with car owners about these tiny holes. Prior to polishing, the pops are "filled" with dirt, old wax, oxidation. When I recondition the paint, the holes appear because the clearcoat has been leveled, removing the debris from the holes. (This is my very unscientific theory.)

Some customers have questioned the mysterious appearance of pinholes in their paint after polishing.

If someone has a better explanation, I'm all ears.

**ASPHALT ROCKET** · 11-10-2009, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

You sure about that, AR?

I don't know what the spots are on PH16's car, but I find solvent pops (pinholes) on factory paint all the time. I've had more than one discussion with car owners about these tiny holes. Prior to polishing, the pops are "filled" with dirt, old wax, oxidation. When I recondition the paint, the holes appear because the clearcoat has been leveled, removing the debris from the holes. (This is my very unscientific theory.)

Some customers have questioned the mysterious appearance of pinholes in their paint after polishing.

If someone has a better explanation, I'm all ears.

I haven't seen solvent pop on any new cars, but do see alot of the sand blasting on the new cars, just like the newer windshields also seem to be softer and have the road rash effect.

Ph16, thanks for the kind words. From what you are saying now it seems like maybe some kind of chemical might of gotten on the paint. Unless you can find someone in person that you can trust and has the knowledge of paint you really are not going to know. Unfortunetly the pics are hard to tell what it really is now.

**A4 1.8tqm** · 04-01-2010, 05:32 AM

I too have the little pin hole dot's on my hood, but not on the bumper or quarter panels. The hood is factory (to my knowledge) and with the same experience you went through in the OP, followed by research I still haven't determined if it's solvent popping, the sand blasting effect or something else. I did the same thing, tape off an area and try to reduce the appearance by sanding/polishing. It did not help at all. The dots seem too evenly distributed and out of the way for road debris to hit and chip. I intend to try spraying new clear on the whole hood sometime, till then I just live with them.

Mentioning that you don't want a glaze was good, may have saved you from a headache. I've sprayed rattle-can clear on my bumper over the (sanded and prepped) factory clear with great results, so I'm sure a pro painter could do it. IMO if the shop thinks they can get them out with 3000 grit, I wouldn't have them work on my car at all. Good luck

**O.C.Detailing** · 04-01-2010, 06:32 AM

Actually, if you read some of Mike's posts, you'll see that wet-sanding is in some ways the less aggressive way of removing serious defects rather than polishing over and over again. I'm a HUGE fan of wetsanding as I've seen it remove incredible amounts of defects in a very short period of time and still leave lots of clear on the paint. Don't be afraid if they're going to wet-sand with 3000 grit. That's almost a piece of notebook paper in terms of cutting power. I wetsand with 2500 grit all the time. Good luck with your issues. I hope they fix it for you under warranty. That blue is an awesome color!