Griot's Garage DA vibration too much, now what?

[Ike21]

Hey all,

So, I invested in a true workhorse DA, the GG 6" DA back in November, and just had a chance to use it on paint for the first time a few days ago. I'm super impressed with its power! I've used rotaries years ago, and for a DA, I have to say, the GG with a heavy cut pad and M105 does come somewhat close to the level of cut you can achieve when compounding with a rotary. I was doing a finish restoration on my minister's wife's 06' Camry as a gift, and the GG + new pads probably saved me 2 days of work vs using a cheap old DA and a "wax spreader".

However, when using what I thought was the correct amount of pressure and high speeds (5.5 to 6 for compounding with m105 on 4" yellow and orange and 6.5" orange pads, and 4.5 to 5.5 for polishing with m205 on 4" and 6.5" white pads), I was getting a huge amount of vibration out of the machine, which of course meant that most of that shock had to be absorbed by the tissue on my fingers and lower arms, and transmitted through each joint from the fingers up to the rotator cuffs. At first, I was getting the classic numbness and tingling in my hands associated with using a machine with high vibration levels, so I didn't think much of it. However, after two days of compounding and polishing, my hands swelled to the point where I couldn't even close them completely, an old wrist injury got re-aggravated, and the tissue in my forearms swelled, to the point of causing "tennis elbow" like symptoms, where the nerve passing through the elbow was actually pinched from swelling. Fast forward three days later, and the swelling has died down somewhat with anti-inflammatories, but I am still in pain.


Now, I ended up breaking it out of the box and checking the operation when I recieved the package from AG back in November. As it turned out, a cardboard stay had fallen away and left the rotary sitting at an angle on its backing plate for who knows how long before it arrived at my house. So, it warped the plate fairly badly. I contacted Griot's CS, and they gave me absolutely stellar service, replacing the plate no questions asked. The machine itself seems to be very well balanced, but of course, add in the forces of polishing that your arms have to react to, and you get a virtual jackhammer.

So, has anyone else experienced this kind of injury from using the GG, or other powerful DAs? Could it be my technique possibly? I was bearing down quite a bit throughout, trying to get used to the pressure required to keep the pad going at at least 1 RPS, but was stalling the pad at times. Also, could product application, pad priming, etc. make a noticeable effect on the net vibrations the user receives in the end?

Could it be that I'm just out of shape? I haven't detailed a car in a while, plus, I don't work in an active environment any longer, where those muscles are constantly challenged. I'm young still, but have had some forearm and wrist injuries from sports that tend to come back to haunt me in situations like this. It seems like this setup as is might cause some permanent damage if I continue to use it.

I've read that the Flex 3401 is better regarding the vibrations. I was hoping to ask some of you on here how much less vibration the machine transmits to the body.

It's ironic, as I was about to invest in one, but couldn't justify the extra $200 over the GG in my occasional-use situation. Wish I had read about this issue sooner, it just seems that nobody talks about it on here. Now I understand why GG is alone in this class in upgrading a standard "PC" style DA with an 850 watt motor! I wish there was a way to exchange it, but after 3 or 4 months of ownership, I'm guessing it's too late.

[conquistador]

I haven't used a GG 6". But I did just recently purchase the flex and used it for the first time last weekend. I applied some heavy pressure when using the machine for a couple of hours. The next day I noticed my left forearm and wrist area were very sore and my hand had a slight tremor when holding objects. This symptoms stayed with me for a few days. So I'm not sure if my technique was incorrect or I wasn't use to the vibrations. But I can tell you the Flex still has a good amount of vibration. I'm not positive you will get any relief by purchasing a Flex.

[tedj101]

Hey all,

So, I invested in a true workhorse DA, the GG 6" DA back in November, and just had a chance to use it on paint for the first time a few days ago. I'm super impressed with its power! I've used rotaries years ago, and for a DA, I have to say, the GG with a heavy cut pad and M105 does come somewhat close to the level of cut you can achieve when compounding with a rotary. I was doing a finish restoration on my minister's wife's 06' Camry as a gift, and the GG + new pads probably saved me 2 days of work vs using a cheap old DA and a "wax spreader".

However, when using what I thought was the correct amount of pressure and high speeds (5.5 to 6 for compounding with m105 on 4" yellow and orange and 6.5" orange pads, and 4.5 to 5.5 for polishing with m205 on 4" and 6.5" white pads), I was getting a huge amount of vibration out of the machine, which of course meant that most of that shock had to be absorbed by the tissue on my fingers and lower arms, and transmitted through each joint from the fingers up to the rotator cuffs. At first, I was getting the classic numbness and tingling in my hands associated with using a machine with high vibration levels, so I didn't think much of it. However, after two days of compounding and polishing, my hands swelled to the point where I couldn't even close them completely, an old wrist injury got re-aggravated, and the tissue in my forearms swelled, to the point of causing "tennis elbow" like symptoms, where the nerve passing through the elbow was actually pinched from swelling. Fast forward three days later, and the swelling has died down somewhat with anti-inflammatories, but I am still in pain.


Now, I ended up breaking it out of the box and checking the operation when I recieved the package from AG back in November. As it turned out, a cardboard stay had fallen away and left the rotary sitting at an angle on its backing plate for who knows how long before it arrived at my house. So, it warped the plate fairly badly. I contacted Griot's CS, and they gave me absolutely stellar service, replacing the plate no questions asked. The machine itself seems to be very well balanced, but of course, add in the forces of polishing that your arms have to react to, and you get a virtual jackhammer.

So, has anyone else experienced this kind of injury from using the GG, or other powerful DAs? Could it be my technique possibly? I was bearing down quite a bit throughout, trying to get used to the pressure required to keep the pad going at at least 1 RPS, but was stalling the pad at times. Also, could product application, pad priming, etc. make a noticeable effect on the net vibrations the user receives in the end?

Could it be that I'm just out of shape? I haven't detailed a car in a while, plus, I don't work in an active environment any longer, where those muscles are constantly challenged. I'm young still, but have had some forearm and wrist injuries from sports that tend to come back to haunt me in situations like this. It seems like this setup as is might cause some permanent damage if I continue to use it.

I've read that the Flex 3401 is better regarding the vibrations. I was hoping to ask some of you on here how much less vibration the machine transmits to the body.

It's ironic, as I was about to invest in one, but couldn't justify the extra $200 over the GG in my occasional-use situation. Wish I had read about this issue sooner, it just seems that nobody talks about it on here. Now I understand why GG is alone in this class in upgrading a standard "PC" style DA with an 850 watt motor! I wish there was a way to exchange it, but after 3 or 4 months of ownership, I'm guessing it's too late.

I bought the Rupes (15) in part because it is smooth! Yes, it really is. Moreover, you don't need to give it pressure even when compounding. (Watch Mike Phillips' video specific to the Rupes.) Now it is a bit pricey, and it takes a bit of practice to get the skill set down (on curved surfaces), but if you want smooth, this one's got it!

<TED>

[VISITOR]

unfortunately, the traditional PC-style DA's vibrate and that's the nature of them. I don't hold onto to it tightly (towards the bottom) when polishing/compounding and put the pressure (when needed) towards to the head/top (if you hold onto it to tight you will feel all the vibration). you can try using gloves though I've never tried them myself, it may or may not help reduce the feeling of the vibration. megs has a new DA coming out and it's suppose to be really smooth and it has a longer traditional rotary body and you can always use the GG6 with a smaller pad set-up. i would wait and see reviews on it first though before purchasing and see if it's worth it ($200+). i'm sure plenty of people on here will give their honest feedback (pro's & con's) soon enough. IMO, i would still keep the GG6, it's one heck of a machine and there's really nothing much it can't tackle with the right pads/polishes/compounds these days. good luck...

[custmsprty]

I bought the Rupes (15) in part because it is smooth! Yes, it really is. Moreover, you don't need to give it pressure even when compounding. (Watch Mike Phillips' video specific to the Rupes.) Now it is a bit pricey, and it takes a bit of practice to get the skill set down (on curved surfaces), but if you want smooth, this one's got it!

<TED>

I agree, super smooth, well balanced.

I own Rupe 3" Duetto and 15. No aches, pains, swollen fingers, sore wrists.

[Loach]

Ouch! My hands are getting pretty bad as well as far as dealing with a lot of vibrations. I try to stick with the smooth rotary for as much of the compounding or polishing as I can before pulling out the Porter Cable. I'm really interesting in seeing reviews for just how smooth the new Meguiar's MT300 polisher is, it could be the one to go with. Rupes is out of my price range, but would probably be the easiest on the hands. I spent a few days working with the Flex 3401. The vibrations bothered me enough to where I would rather just work with the rotary. Hopefully we will be hearing a bunch of reviews for the MT300 when they start shipping out.

[2old2change]

I have sold my three Griots 6" machines and now have the older Megs g100v2 , Rupes 21 , older PC , Rupes LR75 and LR75e. For vibration free correction you won't beat the Rupes machines IMO. I did have the chance to do a test spot with the MT300 and it was comparable to the older Megs machine IMO. So if I was looking for the smoothest da machine it would be a Rupes followed by a MT300 . If you keep a eye on the face book detailer trading pages you can even some find deals on used Rupes 15 and 21's

[J Cole]

I have found that the more firm of a grip you try to maintain the worse the vibration is on your joints.

You've gotta let the machine move around a little and ensure that the pad is centered on the backing plate (if you weren't already).

I use a loose grip but maintain downwards pressure on the head.

Also - do you use yours with the handle? I find that holding the head directly without the handle attached is also easier on the joints.

[swanicyouth]

Here is a video I made of my Rupes a few days ago for no particular reason. One hand. You can see how smooth and easy to control it is.

http://youtu.be/-8oECqtEBsg

I can't use a regular DA anymore - except on small areas with small pads. It just beats me up and I'm essentially lazy. Rupes makes the work much easier. It's worth the extra $$$.

I'm sure the Megs machine is nice, but the main Rupes advantage is that you don't have to use downward pressure (basically) and just have to guide the machine. The downward pressure is what beats you up.

If your going to spend for the Megs, I'd just spend the extra and get the Rupes. I'm mean, your going to spend HOURS with that thing in your hands. You want the most user friendly experience IMHO for those hours. Never skimp on tools that you use a lot - always buy the best.

[Kacz]

Here is a video I made of my Rupes a few days ago for no particular reason. One hand. You can see how smooth and easy to control it is.

http://youtu.be/-8oECqtEBsg

Ha! I should make a video using the Flex in one hand and the Rupes in the other--and see what happens. Maybe it's worse than dividing by zero...?