The GG polisher is as good as the 3401?

[Dubbin1]

Several of us GG owners have had to use the warranty for different reasons

That tells me something.

Pony up the money now and start with the better more powerful Flex (sorry Adam but that's my take on it).

[Irish]

My goodness...What a thread!

I'm reading everyone's reviews and opinions and what I do know is this:

The Flex is a great DA Polisher/Buffer, costs more, but has less vibrations, and doesn't slow down.
The GG is a great DA Polisher/Buffer, but costs a lot less.

What my struggle is this: I'm starting a part-time business detailing cars. I'm working on increasing my services and currently I do offer clay bar / wax jobs. These jobs are taking entirely too long. It takes me 8 hours to do a car. I know part of this is experience, but hand waxing / hand buffing off takes a lot of time as well.

I need a buffer that can do multiple jobs without experiencing heavy weardown. The GG kit on Autogeek.com is VERY tempting with 5 pads and cleaners as well as MF towels.

I've read this entire thread, I've read Mike's comparison of the polishers (very good by the way, thanks Mike!), and I've seen the prices. I'm cashflowing this business 100%, so every dollar counts. My gut says run with the GG because of the value-for-dollar right now, but then my mind says "well the Flex would be a better long-term solution."

So a summary for those who need cliffs:

1.) Starting a part-time business, hopefully to go full-time in a couple of years.
2.) Need a buffer/polisher to speed up clay/wax jobs (I am not offering swirl removal yet!!)
3.) Torn and agonizing over the purchases.
4.) Autogeek is definitely offering the best package deals and I'm stuck between: Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher & Pad Kit, Griot's Garage Random Orbital Machine, orbital polishing kit and FLEX XC3401 VRG Orbital Polisher Kit with Free FLEX Polisher Bag, FLEX Dual Action Polisher and storage bag, FLEX bag kit for starting out.

Help!!!

John

PS: I know it is only $140, but I really need some other high end products such as wheel wax, exhaust tip polish, etc. to round out my product line for starting out.

Any of the DAs AG offers will be fine starting out. I've logged dozens of corrections on my Flex and dozens on dozens more with my original model PC7424 without an issue. They're all fine machines.

What you need to look at is versatility. I've got all the bases covered between my Makita, Flex, and 7424. Just starting out without a smaller backing plate option (sans Edge system, which I've never really heard much about tbh) I'd go with the Griots, 7424XP, or G110v2.

That's just my opinion though. I tend to look at things from a more practical standpoint. Some people do just fine maneuvering 6.5" pads around really tight areas. I reach for 4" pads when that time comes.

Understand that opinions are opinions. Ignore the rhetoric and choose what makes the most sense to you from a practical standpoint.

PS:

Klasse AIO is a fantastic product that you'll find many, many uses for, including wheels. I also highly recommend Nevr Dull or Optimum polish for metalwork.

[BimmerFerret]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I think I will go with the GG after everyone's input. Right now, something really is better than nothing. I do plan on adding more advanced buffers as time goes on though!

Shelby, I do have a 10" AZ buffer. I used it on my car ONE time. I never want to use that thing again. I hated it! It felt odd, I didn't like how it worked, and the covers felt cheap.

[O.C.Detailing]

That tells me something.

Pony up the money now and start with the better more powerful Flex (sorry Adam but that's my take on it).

Heh it's not more powerful, but like I've said in the past, I'd put my Griot's against a Flex anyday if someone wanted a real comparison of the benefits and limitations of both. The flex, in hand and on paper, has less power than the Griot's.

[5.4 Shelby]

Shelby, I do have a 10" AZ buffer. I used it on my car ONE time. I never want to use that thing again. I hated it! It felt odd, I didn't like how it worked, and the covers felt cheap.

I wouldnt recommend one of those. I was just saying you dont need a powerful polisher to apply and remove wax.

But, I do think you will see how easy it is to make paint look great with a DA. Therefore I would buy a powerful machine (any of the DAs) and learn to use it. IT will take your results to a new level. And, it is really fun and rewarding to do .

Honestly, I would prob buy the PC as a great starter DA. That is what I started with years ago. The only reason I bought the GG was to do it more efficiently. The power of the GG can be a little too much at times. There are still situations where I grab the PC instead.

If, down the road, you decide you need more power, then buy the Flex, GG or whatever the darling of the detailing world is at that time. You could use the PC for 4 inch pads and the new one for larger pads.

[DARK HORSE]

Heh it's not more powerful, but like I've said in the past, I'd put my Griot's against a Flex anyday if someone wanted a real comparison of the benefits and limitations of both. The flex, in hand and on paper, has less power than the Griot's.

When looking at power one must consider input power and output power. Input power is calculated by I x V = P (current X volatage= power);
In the case of the Flex: Ip=7.5Ax120V= 900W
In the case of the GG: Ip=7.0Ax 120V = 840W. However input power really is of no intrest as long as the rated circuit can handle the load. What we are all concerned with is output power (the power at the business end of the tool). This becomes much more difficult to calculate properly. Many things come into play when calculating output power (ie internal resistance, internal power disapation (heat loss), power delivery efficiency, weight, etc). I see that flex has rated the power at 900 watts of input power and 590 Watts of Output power, which is what I would consider a normal power loss from input power (Ip) to output power (Op) and Griots has shown their power rating to be 850 watts of input power, could not find an output power rating for them (which is what truly should be refered to when discussing power). Comparing Ip to Op is like comparing apples and oranges. Based on the fact that the flex has a 7.5A motor and the GG has a 7A motor, I would guess that the Flex actually will have slightly more Op (output power). However when discussing power tools, it really is more about torque under load, then it is about an electrical power rating, but thats a whole nother can of worms. (Not trying to argue or add fuel to the fire, as I really don't care about what machine is blah,blah,blah, I just wanted to makes sure people were looking at the power ratings in the correct way and not confusing or comparing Ip to Op) and with such an equal current rating which ever one does have more electrical power disapation, it will be ever so slight)...

[Dubbin1]

Heh it's not more powerful, but like I've said in the past, I'd put my Griot's against a Flex anyday if someone wanted a real comparison of the benefits and limitations of both. The flex, in hand and on paper, has less power than the Griot's.

I have used both and in hand IMO the Flex is stronger. I don't know what paper you're reading but everything I have seen shows the Flex with more power. I'm not saying the GG is a bad tool in any way, its a great tool.

I just can understand why you get all worked up when someone has a different opinion then you when it comes to the two tools. If you feel the GG is better for you then use it but don't go knocking other people when they have their own opinion that doesn't match yours

Now, I still plan on buying a GG to replace my old PC but the Flex will still be my go to polisher.

[ZoranC]

The flex, in hand and on paper, has less power than the Griot's.

Could you please elaborate what are you basing "in hand" part on?

[ZoranC]

However when discussing power tools, it really is more about torque under load, ...

Torque under load is where proverbial tire hits the road. It is easy to get lost in "bench racing" discussions but I don't see why when approximate answer is right in front of us. All it would take is to put brand new 6.5" Surbuff pad on one, put a tool on top of bare metal, press until pressure is say 15l/20/25lbs (having a way to make sure pressure is accurate, hand "gauges" don't count), turn on engine at full speed and maintain pressure for a minute, shut off, measure temperature of metal, let it cool off back to room temperature, repeat process with other tool and another brand new pad, and whichever one raised temperature most is one that most likely generated most torque under load and no need for further "bench racing".

[O.C.Detailing]

I've used both machines...the Flex is sluggish in oscillation and rotational speeds compared to my Griot's. Output power on the Griots will be higher than the Flex due to the fact that there is MUCH less mechanical resistance in the spindle assembly. Friction drives the Flex's outpower way down. Sorry guys. I'll never concede. The flex is a great machine, but there's no way it's better than the Griot's.

I don't get heated when people have opinions different than me. I just don't agree that people are trying to justify the cost of the flex by falsely claiming that it's better than a machine less than half of it's cost when I've had months of side by side comparison work to base my FACTS on. I'm sorry my machine was used to remove sanding marks that the flexcouldnt using the same pad and product combo and I'm sorry that I always saw fewer defects in the side polished by the Griot's, but that's the truth over months of working directly beside the flex with my Griot's. I still want a flex because I think it's great for 1-step polishing, but for hardcore correction, I'll stick with my Griot's.

I'll leave it at that now all. I've beat these points to death but people want to stick to their guns in thinking the flex is the more powerful of the two. I'd put my Griot's against anyone with a flex in a side-by-side comparison to prove my points. Anyway, either way is win-win, but the flex is NOT the better of the two machines IME.