The GG polisher is as good as the 3401?

[Clutch34]

I have been watching this thread with some interest since I recently purchased a flex. Common sense told me that forced rotation would be better. I own a PC and it will stop if the pressure is to great or the pad is wet. With the flex it never stops, even at slow speed. I am NOT a professional, only a do-ti-yourself kind of guy, so my opinion is only that "my opinion". I have not experienced that feeling of having to chase the flex around or being led by it. I find it a pure joy to use. I still use the makita rotary for deep scratches because it will correct really fast, but it is not as much fun to use as the flex. If you get a chance try the different machines and buy the one you like. I am on another forum for hand engravers (guns and jewelry) and there is a device being sold that is way more expensive than any or even all of the machines put together. There is a section on the forum where owners of the device post their location and invite others to try it out. Only after taking someone up on their offer and loving the device did I buy it. It would be nice if admin would create a spot so members that are willing, could post the machines that they would allow others to try. The forum family seems only to willing to share their knowledge with each other. Sometimes you can feel the tension in a post because of the individuals passion for their techniques, products and comitment to a company. Remember it is not a contest and you can't see expressions or body language in a post so don't read too much into them.


Mark

I like this idea! I'd love to try out some DAs before purchasing the "right one" for me!

[kbohip]

I come back after almost 2 months and this thread I started is still at the top of the page?! Lol, I didn't expect to see that. Anyway I did end up buying a Flex 3401. The machine itself is a true pleasure to use. There is very little vibration (and I was using a Cyclo before this which had hardly any vibration). The correction ability? Hmmm, the jury is still out on this one. It seems to do ok with finer scratches and swirl marks but anything heavy and I have to pull out the big Dewalt rotary and the wool pad. Maybe the car's I'm working on are in exceptionally bad shape?

Case in point is a '01 Lexus LS430 I just did. The roof had HORRIBLE water spots. I tried using the Flex with Meg 105 and an orange pad and it did nothing at all. It ended up taking the rotary with a wool pad and Meg 105 about 6 passes to get most of the marks out. Thank God for thick Lexus paint! If those spots were on my Nissan I'd have never had enough clearcoat to be able to remove them before I hit the paint below. The other thing I noticed is Megs 105 doesn't work well with RO's. At least this was my experience. Even using the Flex at speed 6 and really working the 105 in for a long time, removing it was a huge chore. Whereas the rotary could work the 105 down to almost nothing in no time.

I also used the Flex on the sides of the Lexus and using Megs 205. It couldn't take out a lot of the scratches. I really would like to try the Flex with a wool pad and Megs 105 to see if there's an improvement in the ease of polish removal. If not I need to find a better heavy cut polish to use with the Flex as the 105/Flex/orange pad combo is way too much of a chore.

The Flex does really shine in less severe situations. It worked brilliantly on my Maxima taking out every scratch it came across with relative ease. My finish was in much better shape than the Lexus though so I was expecting it to do a great job there. It's funny to see some people here saying the Flex gets away from them or is hard to handle. After using the Dewalt 849, the Flex seems like a child's toy to me. I guess it's all in what you get used to. Regardless of which RO here is the best. The Dewalt rotary is the best $75 I've spent all year. I LOVE what this thing can do to a finish!

So after all this I'll say once again that the jury is still out for me regarding the Flex's cutting abilities. I want to try a wool pad and a heavy cut polish that's designed to be used with RO's before giving the FLex the thumbs up or down in this regard. Below are some before and after pics after using the rotary/wool pad/Meg 105 and Flex/white pad/Meg 205 following the rotary. Keep in mind that these photos do not do justice to how bad this car's finish looked before I started. The roof was a nightmare of craters and the sides almost approached wet sanded.

Roof before:


Roof after:


Side before:


Side after:

[PAR Detailing]

I want to try a wool pad and a heavy cut polish that's designed to be used with RO's before giving the FLex the thumbs up or down in this regard.

First let me say I am a huge Flex fan. I have one and I absolutely love it. I believe it can correct 85-90% of what a rotary can when used properly. I wont comment on whether it is better than the GG because I have never used a GG, but I have never once regretted my flex purchase.

Now to address the quote. I have tried a wool pad on mine and I did Not like it. It doesnt work very well. I bought the Surbuf pads, similar concept as wool but different, and they work AMAZING on the flex. You will get some great correction ability out of them and they work with the machine very well. In addition to that they require very little product to correct paint. I use significantly less product with them than with wool. I highly reccomend them to anyone with a DA who wants more correction ability than an orange pad. I havent done a side by side comparisson with the surbuf and any other pads or comparison with a rotary yet but I will when I find some extra time and I will do a write up on it.

All the best,
Jon

[ZoranC]

The correction ability? Hmmm, the jury is still out on this one. It seems to do ok with finer scratches and swirl marks but anything heavy and I have to pull out the big Dewalt rotary and the wool pad. Case in point is a '01 Lexus LS430 I just did. The roof had HORRIBLE water spots. I tried using the Flex with Meg 105 and an orange pad and it did nothing at all. It ended up taking the rotary with a wool pad and Meg 105 about 6 passes to get most of the marks out.

Many people have posted very positive experiences doing heavy correction work with Flex, including 1500 grit wet sanding marks. (BTW, when comparing abilities and making conclusions let's do that apples to apples, not machine X with orange pad to machine Y with wool pad).

The other thing I noticed is Megs 105 doesn't work well with RO's. At least this was my experience.

Many people use 105 just fine with ROs.

Even using the Flex at speed 6 and really working the 105 in for a long time, removing it was a huge chore. Whereas the rotary could work the 105 down to almost nothing in no time.

Could you please elaborate on this as it leaves me unsure what you mean with it? On one side "removing was a huge chore" sounds weird, like a gumming up issue, and "rotary could work down 105 to almost nothing" is not description usually heard with non-diminishing abrasives.

I want to try a wool pad and a heavy cut polish that's designed to be used with RO's before giving the FLex the thumbs up or down in this regard.

M105 _is_ a heavy cut polish that _is_ DA polisher approved.

[ZoranC]

I have tried a wool pad on mine and I did Not like it. It doesnt work very well.

Can you please share with us what exactly you did not like about that combo / why it did not work very well for you?

P.S. Surbuf pads on Flex? Have you tried that on curved panels?

[Mike Phillips]

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Thank you.

[BimmerFerret]

My goodness...What a thread!

I'm reading everyone's reviews and opinions and what I do know is this:

The Flex is a great DA Polisher/Buffer, costs more, but has less vibrations, and doesn't slow down.
The GG is a great DA Polisher/Buffer, but costs a lot less.

What my struggle is this: I'm starting a part-time business detailing cars. I'm working on increasing my services and currently I do offer clay bar / wax jobs. These jobs are taking entirely too long. It takes me 8 hours to do a car. I know part of this is experience, but hand waxing / hand buffing off takes a lot of time as well.

I need a buffer that can do multiple jobs without experiencing heavy weardown. The GG kit on Autogeek.com is VERY tempting with 5 pads and cleaners as well as MF towels.

I've read this entire thread, I've read Mike's comparison of the polishers (very good by the way, thanks Mike!), and I've seen the prices. I'm cashflowing this business 100%, so every dollar counts. My gut says run with the GG because of the value-for-dollar right now, but then my mind says "well the Flex would be a better long-term solution."

So a summary for those who need cliffs:

1.) Starting a part-time business, hopefully to go full-time in a couple of years.
2.) Need a buffer/polisher to speed up clay/wax jobs (I am not offering swirl removal yet!!)
3.) Torn and agonizing over the purchases.
4.) Autogeek is definitely offering the best package deals and I'm stuck between: Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher & Pad Kit, Griot's Garage Random Orbital Machine, orbital polishing kit and FLEX XC3401 VRG Orbital Polisher Kit with Free FLEX Polisher Bag, FLEX Dual Action Polisher and storage bag, FLEX bag kit for starting out.

Help!!!

John

PS: I know it is only $140, but I really need some other high end products such as wheel wax, exhaust tip polish, etc. to round out my product line for starting out.

[ZoranC]

My goodness...What a thread!

I'm reading everyone's reviews and opinions and what I do know is this:

The Flex is a great DA Polisher/Buffer, costs more, but has less vibrations, and doesn't slow down.
The GG is a great DA Polisher/Buffer, but costs a lot less.

What my struggle is this: I'm starting a part-time business detailing cars. I'm working on increasing my services and currently I do offer clay bar / wax jobs. These jobs are taking entirely too long. It takes me 8 hours to do a car. I know part of this is experience, but hand waxing / hand buffing off takes a lot of time as well.

I need a buffer that can do multiple jobs without experiencing heavy weardown. The GG kit on Autogeek.com is VERY tempting with 5 pads and cleaners as well as MF towels.

I've read this entire thread, I've read Mike's comparison of the polishers (very good by the way, thanks Mike!), and I've seen the prices. I'm cashflowing this business 100%, so every dollar counts. My gut says run with the GG because of the value-for-dollar right now, but then my mind says "well the Flex would be a better long-term solution."

So a summary for those who need cliffs:

1.) Starting a part-time business, hopefully to go full-time in a couple of years.
2.) Need a buffer/polisher to speed up clay/wax jobs (I am not offering swirl removal yet!!)
3.) Torn and agonizing over the purchases.
4.) Autogeek is definitely offering the best package deals and I'm stuck between: Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher & Pad Kit, Griot's Garage Random Orbital Machine, orbital polishing kit and FLEX XC3401 VRG Orbital Polisher Kit with Free FLEX Polisher Bag, FLEX Dual Action Polisher and storage bag, FLEX bag kit for starting out.

Help!!!

John

PS: I know it is only $140, but I really need some other high end products such as wheel wax, exhaust tip polish, etc. to round out my product line for starting out.

This decision is easy: Get a GG. Later as you expand add Flex to it and have both. GG is more versatile, Flex is more specialized.

[O.C.Detailing]

John, also remember that the flex only has a 1 year warranty where the Griot's has a lifetime replacement warranty. Several of us GG owners have had to use the warranty for different reasons, even something that had nothing to do with a machine defect and the machines were replaced pretty much without hassle for most and just a little distress for one person that I know of, but both Griot's AND AG came through in the end for the gentleman.

If you can swing the cost, you can go with the Flex, but after that first year, you're on your own if it breaks and you'll have to buy a new one.

Good luck with whichever polisher you choose though.

Adam

[5.4 Shelby]

John K,

If you are only going to apply wax with it, then it doesn't need to be anything fancy. You dont need power to apply wax. The power is for paint correction/swirl removal. You could use one of those ?Auto Parts "Buffers" for that.

Machine claying does not work well IME.

With that said, once you see how easy it is to remove swirls with the DA, you will begin to offer that as a service.