Rupes 15 mod

[casvg5]

So I am coming from a PC and a flex, and added a Rupes 15 to the arsenal. What I am having trouble with is keeping the Rupes spinning. You can put almost no pressure on this thing before it stalls. Is it less important to keep this polisher spinning?

AMMO NYC mentioned he put a washer in between the plate and the buffer, does anyone have any info on this? He says it reduces the friction between the machine and the plate.

I have noticed that if you put a lot of pressure on one edge of the pad, it starts to spin. Im not sure, this Rupes 15 does a NICE job, even when its not spinning, it still has so much action on the surface. I worry that I may be burning up the machine if I don't let it spin, but I get into situation where I need that pressure.

[wlshephard]

It is a mod that Kevin Brown came up with. There is a video of how to make the washer online. I will try to find it but it will be later today. Check out Kevin's site for more info its buffdaddy dot com

[swanicyouth]

I did the washer mod, but didn't really notice a difference. I talked to one of the Rupes reps at DF and he said it doesn't really do much. I tend to believe him.

I have a Rupes 15 and it spins well on most panels. You do get bogging down on certain areas. You really need another polisher capable of using smaller pads, be it a Mini or a GG6 with a 3" BP, to buff out a whole car IMHO with the Rupes 15.

I wouldn't worry about burning the machine up, since its a free spinning mechanism. You just need to get the technique right to be successful with the Rupes. Little to no downward force or the head of the machine, Rupes pads, and don't prime the Rupes pads. Also, use any polish sparingly, especially Rupes polish.

Anyway, this is what worked for me. While the machine isn't perfect, and could use MORE power IMHO, it's been good enough for me to want to spend the $ on the Mini. When used as a system it's just so easy.

[JSou]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhfVeRWx-Zw]How to washer mod your Rupes Bigfoot polisher - YouTube[/video]

[JSou]

A post by Kevin Brown:

Now that several hundred Rupes BigFoot Random Orbital Polishers have invaded the North American market, user feedback is rolling in. For the most part, those that have swapped their hard-earned cash for a BigFoot are ecstatic with its performance.

However, there are some BigFoot owners that are questioning the performance of the machine, primarily when pitted against the Griot's Random Orbital or the Flex XC 3401VRG. Most of the finger pointing seems to lead to an opinion that the BigFoot's motor power is either inadequate or its RPM capability too low. If I'm not mistaken, the primary BigFoot machine being mentioned in the comparisons is the LHR 15ES (125mm/5" backing plate, 15mm-diameter orbit, 4,800-5,000 RPM).

Through my own use of these machines, I have verified that the motor is certainly capable of maintaining constant and adequate speed under load. Further, many of the guys reporting inadequate power or RPM are known to be capable and intelligent chaps.

So... what in the world is going on?!

I believe the reason is rather simple to explain.
Both machines employ a backing plate anti-spin "feature" that slows the rotation of the backing plate via friction:

This feature does have a very useful purpose, which is to slow excessive backing plate rotation in situations where the pad is not under load while the machine is running (either the pad has minimal or no contact with the polishing surface or there is very little friction between the polishing surface and buffing pad). This is done to prevent erratic interaction between the pad and paint surface and to eliminate the chance that the pad will inadvertently scour the surface.

We must also consider that for years now, we've been using machines that create a smaller orbits but deliver higher motor RPM. So right away, there's an expectation that must be overcome when using a BigFoot. Since the stroke is so much larger, there is not necessarily a need to deliver high motor RPM because with a larger stroke comes increased lateral pad motion and an increased ability to create more backing plate rotation.

In other words... with all other things being equal, a large stroke machine will cause the backing plate to spin more rapidly than a small stroke machine. Therefore, to provide a similar polishing result, a large stroke machine does not necessarily need its motor to deliver as high an RPM as a short stroke machine. While I don't expect most guys to ponder design variances and their consequences from one machine to the next... I rather enjoy it!


What is the reason we as detailer's typically increase machine speed?
Is it because we are thinking, "Man, if I could polish the area directly beneath the buffing pad 20 times more per second (equal to an additional 1,200 RPM), the finish on this paint would be perfect!"

Not usually. We can accomplish such a feat by either slowing arm speed or polishing the surface using additional passes. In general (and assuming that the machine is being used intelligently in regards to machine speed settings), we tend to add machine speed in hopes of increasing backing plate rotation. And... should we increase machine speed and end up dissatisfied with the polishing energy or the amount of backing plate rotation being created, many of us will then either add pressure atop the machine or tilt it (or both) in hopes of concentrating machine energy onto a smaller portion of the pad. This typically results in further slowing of the backing plate's rotation. If taken to extremes, the buffing pad may hardly rotate at all (or may stall altogether).

I believe that this is the primary reason some guys believe that the BigFoot's motor power is inadequate, when in fact the motor is delivering a more than adequate amount of power.


Polishing Methodology.
If two guys are handed identically prepared machines using identical liquids & pads AND they are told to use an identical speed setting... they may very well end up with a different polishing result.

Without getting overly technical, by comparison the two users of the machines may:

• Use more or less buffing liquid
• Use more or less applied pressure
• Use more or less machine tilt
• Spend more or less time polishing

Polishing results become much more difficult to control when the system set forth by a manufacturer is modified. Whereas the BigFoot machine (with its anti-spin technology) may deliver ample backing plate rotation when used with the BigFoot brand of pads and liquids (which were developed exclusively for use with the BigFoot), it may deliver substandard performance when used with the Meguiar's DA Microfiber System.

In the case of the aforementioned system, a tremendous amount of friction can be generated between the polishing disc and paint surface because the disc's microfiber face features an astonishing amount of surface contact. If the disc is then thoroughly primed with the abrasive-laden Meguiar's DA Microfiber Cutting Compound, there is sure to be much more friction and drag created compared to a Rupes BigFoot Blue Foam Cutting Pad that has been sprinkled with a few drops of Rupes BigFoot Zephir Coarse Cutting Gel.


Time to even the playing field!
By simply placing a spacer between the backing plate and the machine's backing plate mounting pad, the anti-spin feature is disengaged. The machine will then deliver increased backing plate rotation, which may help to increase cutting speed and deliver improved polishing results. This was covered in another article, which can be found here. Here are some photos taken from the article that outline the process:


A metal, plastic, or phenolic washer will work. Grind, cut or sand to size.

The height of the spacer needs to be enough so that the backing plate will no longer contact Bigfoot’s shroud. The spacer shown is approximately 3/16” tall and was taken from a backing plate featuring a 5/16”-24 mounting stud.



The spacer was placed between the backing plate and mounting pad.

The pad still mounts safely and securely. If desired, a minimally longer bolt can be installed to compensate.
The bolt is 8mm, and the shape of the platform & spacer is known as a Double-D Cutout.


The resultant gap is nearly unnoticeable.

With the spacer installed, backing plate rotation and cutting speed were dramatically increased.
The difference was apparent, even when low speed settings were used.


Will this temporary modification void the machine's warranty?
I have verified through Francesco Ginocchio, Marketing Manager at Rupes S.p.A. that the warranty will remain intact. The wonderful Technicians and Engineers at Rupes hold firm in their belief that this modification is not necessary or beneficial in the chase for increased performance. Further, we both agree (Rupes and I) that with an increase in backing plate rotation comes a potential for loss of high RPM stability. Therefore, if you wish to temporarily or permanently try this modification...

PAY ATTENTION WHILE OPERATING THE MACHINE.

No message texting or brushing of your teeth while operating the UNLEASHED BIGFOOT BEAST!!!

Thanks for reading, best of luck!

[hamlyn]

I highly doubt that the Rupes reps will endorse the washer modification and admit that it improves performance. That would be admitting a flaw in the design of the polisher. A new polisher without the washer will have some level of contact between the backing plate and the cowl, which will keep the pad/backing plate from spinning freely. Extended use will cause this contact surface to heat up, which is never a good thing.
Them's my .02.

[casvg5]

I just feel like the pressure I use with the PC or Flex, which I wouldn't call a lot or at all excessive, completely halts the rupes. I literally cannot put more than a lb or two force on the buffer before it stalls out. Maybe I will explore the washer mod.

Either way, even if I do an entire panel and suffocate and stall the pad out...the rupes STILL cuts great and corrects very well.

[Mike Phillips]

Something else to remember....

Pad Saturation

As we buffed out the Meguiar's Big Rig last week, we only used Rupes polishers for the project.

Bigfoot 21
Bigfoot 15
Duetto

We used Meguiar's M20 Polymer Sealant and Meguiar's W9207 Black Foam Finishing Pads, about the same size and texture as the 7" Rupes White Foam Finishing pads.

As the pads became wet or saturated with the M20 Polylmer Sealant you could see a dramatic fall off in pad rotation.

I've been teaching this same characteristic for ALL dual action orbital polishers that use a free spinning drive assembly as long as I've been posting to the Internet.

That is wet pads don't rotate very well.

All you have to do to prove this to yourself is LOOK at how a wet pad is rotating or not rotating as you work around a car and then SWITCH to a clean, DRY pad and pay attention to how well it rotates as compared to the wet pad you just removed.

I don't really want to get into whether the Kevin Brown Washer Mod that Larry shared works or not, (due credit where credit is due), as my job is to represent the companies that are carried on Autogeek.net in the way the company wants their brand and product represented not as how Mike Phillips wants to represent them. I do this for all companies, not just Rupes.

All these other guys are on their own when it comes to their professional relationship with Rupes or any other company and the things they tell people they do or recommend others to do. I'm in this for the long run and I work with and communicate with all the companies that have products sold by Autogeek. That's a resposibilty I respect.



So don't read this wrong, I'm not saying the KB washer mod doesn't work and I'm not saying it does work, what I am saying is don't forget about the basices.


Pad saturation is one of the factors I include in this article besides others and while this was written before the Rupes made a splash on our shore, the same principals apply.

Factors that can cause a pad to stop rotating on a DA Polisher


Done interjecting... you guys can go back to your discussion....

p.s.

We're using Rupes polishers on this tonight here at Autogeek.... feel free to ask all the guys that are using these tools what they think....

Most of the guys that help on these projects also post to the picture & comments thread which is here and will be opened tomorrow.

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[Mike Phillips]

I just feel like the pressure I use with the PC or Flex, which I wouldn't call a lot or at all excessive, completely halts the Rupes. I literally cannot put more than a lb or two force on the buffer before it stalls out.

Keep in mind one of the things that makes the Rupes polisher different than other polishers is how you use it.

If you grew up using tools like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's, Griot's or Flex dual action polishers you've been trained to apply firm downward pressure. Heck I wrote an article on this showing a bathroom scale with a polisher on it and the scale reads 15 pounds of weight on it.

The time stamp on what I wrote below is July 6th, 2005

When using the G100 Dual Action Polisher to remove defects, (This is different then merely applying a polish or a wax because you're trying to remove paint), you need to use a slow arm speed, overlap you passes by 50% and apply between 15 pounds and 20 pounds of pressure onto the head of the polisher.

To get an idea of how hard this is to push down, simply place your polisher onto an everyday bathroom scale and then press down on the head of the polisher and take note of how hard you're pushing. If you like, you can even tape some heavy plastic around the scale as you can see that I did in the below picture and actually turn the polisher on and practice pushing down as you move the polisher around. Also listen to the sound of the motor to get an idea of how it sounds at the pressure you are applying. Make sure you have someone to hold the scale in place when you do this.

15 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher


20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher

Different type of tool....

Now you have to un-train yourself and you don't apply firm downward pressure. Just a little more than the weight of the machine.

If you need o remove defects, don't mess around, get the Rupes blue foam cutting pad and the Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse Compound and let the long orbit throw of the tool together with these "engineered for the tool" pad and products do the work for you.



Mind Blowing - Rupes Blue Foam Cutting Pad and Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound

[arisking]

Am I one of the few who did the washer mod and has no problem keeping the pad spinning under pressure and on like 95% of panels?

On a LHR15ES by the way.