LSP stripping

[PiPUK]

Hi Guys,

As many may know, I have been arguing about the ineffectiveness of supposed LSP stripping techniques. Here we have our basic WOWA sealant, water based and gives routine 3 month durability. It is about a month old. I have applied to it neat TFR, which is a highly alkaline degreaser (pH>13) with a number of surfactants. Here is what it looks like after a good wiping with a sponge soaked in the product and then a couple of buckets of water thrown over to rinse.



OK - so there are no beads. If you look closely, you can see that most of the surface is wet with the water sticking to the surface, just like you expect when your LSP is stripped. So we have stripped the LSP then, just as one expects from a very strong APC/degreaser type products. But wait one minute, lets give it a wipe with neat IPA. Lets see what we get when we throw another bucket of water over it:





So I have wiped the top left corner with IPA and the first picture shows this close up. It looks rather different to a moment ago! The second picture shows the bonnet as a whole so you can see that the surrounding area is still behaving as it was in picture 1 (it has now had 3 buckets of water thrown on it so has been rinsed more than most people will do). So my IPA wipe (which many believe will strip an LSP) has magically recovered my LSP! Wow!

Now lets summarise my (and some others) thoughts:

Many supposed LSP strippers are surfactant containing. Many surfactants will 'stick' to surfaces either through design (e.g. to enhance gloss or stop water spotting) or because they see the LSP as rather similar in structure to the oils they like to bond with. As a result, many surfactant products will leave a film of surfactant on top of the LSP, this will then attract water so hide any beading or sheeting of the LSP.


This is what has happened in my first picture - there is a surfactant film. With the IPA wipe, I have dissolved the film and uncovered the LSP and thus pictures 2 and 3 show the beading has returned.

So there you go, absolute proof that the above mechanism is not just theoretical! Had someone tried to apply a fresh LSP after the step 1 'stripping', the fresh LSP would have been highly compromised, had it been a fussy LSP (e.g. nano sealant), there is a chance it might have failed to bond totally.

[FUNX650]

Thanks Mr. PiPUK ("Megane" ) for your posting of this invaluable information...

I, for one, appreciate it.



Bob

[hernandez.art13]

Does claying remove LSP?

Very informative,
Thank You

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I'm gonna do this test with GTechniq Panel Wipe.

What % IPA did you use for the wipe?

[SR99]

re: Does claying remove LSP?

In theory, it shouldn't. If you read the patents about how detailing clay works (and it's part of the reason the patents were granted) it selectively abrades only above-surface contaminants while leaving the underlying paint surface unabraded.

Clay bar alternatives like the speedy prep or nanoskin work differently towards the same end (which is why they don't infringe the clay bar patents). They seem to be more like using a fine abrasive sanding sponge so they aren't as selective as the clay bar. To get the above surface contaminants removed completely you would have to abrade them down to the paint surface (but there is a thin layer of lube involved too). So I guess this would mean that these types of products might be useful in removing an LSP, compared to a clay bar. I'm not entirely sure on that point though (maybe if you used water instead of lube it would be more effective at that)

[cleanmycorolla]

Why not use a paint cleaner to accomplish LSP removal?


Great post though, nice testing! Good pics too!

[ihaveacamaro]

Why not use a paint cleaner to accomplish LSP removal?


Great post though, nice testing! Good pics too!

I think what he is trying to explain is that people think they have stripped the LSP with dawn or other soap, when in fact they haven't.

[PiPUK]

Yup, this is me myth busting. I could strip this if I wanted but the point Herr is that a strong alkaline degreaser has failed to strip (but has left a film which could easily confuse someone into thinking so) and IPA (100&#37 has not only also not stripped it but has in fact succeeded in making it 'good' again.

[FUNX650]

re: Does claying remove LSP?

In theory, it shouldn't. If you read the patents about how detailing clay works (and it's part of the reason the patents were granted) it selectively abrades only above-surface contaminants while leaving the underlying paint surface unabraded.

Clay bar alternatives like the speedy prep or nanoskin work differently towards the same end (which is why they don't infringe the clay bar patents). They seem to be more like using a fine abrasive sanding sponge so they aren't as selective as the clay bar. To get the above surface contaminants removed completely you would have to abrade them down to the paint surface (but there is a thin layer of lube involved too). So I guess this would mean that these types of products might be useful in removing an LSP, compared to a clay bar. I'm not entirely sure on that point though (maybe if you used water instead of lube it would be more effective at that)

I'm going to say that:

-Even if auto-clay doesn't remove all of the wax on a vehicle while it's shearing-off (sometimes totally removing?) contaminates
at the top most level of CC...(leaving the unsheared remnants of said contaminates still in/within the CC's total-thickness)...

I will still polish...to the degree that I deem the top coat paint-film 'needs'...and apply a wax or other LSP afterward.


-Why?
Because to me, if for no other reason, there's no wax or other LSP at the areas ...(as small/minute as they may be)...
where the contaminants were sheared-off/removed(?).


-Clay is indeed an abrasive product...too often overused, IMHO.

But if I'm going to take the time to clay:
-I most certainly will take the time to assess the condition of the paint-film (including the marring from the claying-process)...
-In choosing the polish I am going to take the time to use...
-Before I once again take the time to apply an LSP.

This is just a few of my thoughts regarding auto-clay.



Bob

[hernandez.art13]

So IPA 100% is the key to stripping LSP?