black VW swirls and scratches

[munna]

Hi guys im new here and have just brought a 2007 VW jetta in black. The paint work is not great and Id like to get it looking as best I can. I used to own a red pearl Nissan Skyline and it was flawless until the panel beaters took a rotary to it and swirled it up (and denied it when I confronted them).

I had little knowledge and tried to remove the swirls with some swirl remover 2.0, and a orange pad on a dewalt orbital sander (which I didnt use correctly) I never got them out and ended up using zaino z5 and z2 which covered them but 4 washes latter they where all back.

Sorry about the long story but I don't want to half ass it this time. So I have done a lot of research here and on other forums. I came across this very interesting guy called junkman on another forum. The thread had 2 hours worth of videos which I have learnt a tonne from. Junkman goes into great detail and the guy is quiet a character.

click here to see the thread

Anyway after watching the video this is my plan of attack and this time I will do a test spot first.

Then I will wash and clay the car

Next I will use a orange hex logic pad and M105
followed buy a white hex logic and M205
then I will seal it with my zanio z5 and then z2.

I dont have a PC but a Makita B05021, which I think will do the job. I see the junkman uses his PC on setting 5 which (after some research is speed of 5800opm). I veiwed the manual on the makita and setting 2 is 6000opm.

The junkman said he uses 9 to 14lbs of pressure and to find out how much this feels like he said use some scales. I did this with my makita and it didnt stall, I found I could apply much more pressure then that before it started to slow down.

Here are some pics taken of the paint its pretty ordinary around the door handles. But in over places it has moderate swirls.

Am I on the right track here?
Do you think the Makita is up to the task?
Any advice for under the door handles? they are quiet bad
Do you think the M105 with the orange pad will be two agressive after seeing the pics? Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[lawrenceSA]

Ok so I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but have polished out around 20 VAG cars (which generally have a quite hard clear coats).

Firstly, you should always be using the least aggressive method in order to remove as little of your (protective) clear coat as possible.

With that in mind, the test spot is crucial, but I would only perform the test spot once the vehicle has been washed/clayed, not before, as you will be working dirty and run the risk not only of scratching your paint, but killing your pads too...

I tend to use Menzerna polishes on VAG clear coats as I have found they provide great cut and have a long working time, which is a plus on the hard clear coat, although I have also used Meguiars Ultimate Compound with great success too.

Admittedly no 2 vehicles paint will react that same but generally speaking I have found that with a LC Orange CCS pad on a DA I have been able to remove light swirls with SF4000 - if that test spot does not yield the desired correction, step it up to PF2500 and if that is still not ....well.... cutting it you can then try the FG400.....but with the FG400 you may then need to come back and do a refining polish with the SF4000....

I have no experience with a rotary and apologise if the above info is therefore rendered 'useless' but just wanted to share the little experience I have with these types of paint....

Hope you are able to get your paint in the condition you want

[munna]

Thanks Lawrence,

Good advice for sure, yep I will clean the whole car and clay a full the trunk for a start. I plan on taking my time with this and not try tackle to much at once. Once I am happy with the test spot. I was planing on completely finishing the trunk (meaning I will pollish and seal). Then start on the next section when I have time.

Im wondering how aggressive the m105 is compared to the products you mentioned? I have already ordered the m105 and m205 so I guess I will work with them rather then buy more.

I also ordered 2 white and 2 orange pads. Maybe I should start on the test spot with the m105 on the white pad. Then step it up to orange, and if that doesnt work I guess I will have to buy a yellow and try that. I am interested to hear what you guys think of this plan.

Thanks again

[lawrenceSA]

Well my guess is that 105 would be similar in cut to the FG400 and 205 akin to the PF2500?

Also, I noticed you said you were going to start with 105 on a white pad in your test spot....

I have not used 105/205 before, but would think you should try them out in this order

205/white then if you want more cut
205/orange then if you want more cut
105/white (not sure if you can 105 on a white pad?)
105/orange....

And then as far as I understand it, if you go with 105 (cutting compound), you will then to finish off with 205 (polish) to restore any gloss you loose when correcting the defects with 105....

Also, I have read that 105 generates a lot of dusting, and so if it were me, I would want to finish off all the cutting with 105, clean up the dust (wash the car) then polish the whole car with 205 and then seal...

[munna]

hmm I think the white with 205 has very little cut but its probably worth a go you never know. The orange 205 should give a fair bit more cut id imagine, worth a go for after that if it does not work.

I don't know about white with 105 either, anyone know?

Yes, from the videos the 105 with orange pad removed the swirls but left light maring. The 205 with the white has a very tiny amount of cut which removes that and and finishes the surface off from what I understand.

The junkman mists the pad with detail spray when using the 105 which he says reduces the dusting. he didnt need the detail spray on the 205 as its more runny.

wish my products would hurry up and get here so I can get started. he he

Ohh and I have no experience with a rotary either the makita I have is a orbital. Im not game enought to try a rotary.

thanks again Lawrence

[munna]

Anyone else have a few suggestions?

[Junkman2008]

Anyone else have a few suggestions?

So where are you at on this?

[ski2]

Anyone else have a few suggestions?

I personally have had great results on our two VWs hard paint using HD polishes but,
if you're going to use 105/205 you might want to take a look at the recommendations of Kevin Brown and the Kevin Brown Method. He seems to be the authority (with allot of research) on the most effective use of 105/205. If you go to his website BuffDaddy you will see the links on the right hand side of the page. Allot of reading, but well worth the time.

[munna]

So where are you at on this?

Hi all finally back here sorry I am so late to update with progress.

Ok so it turns out the makita had very little throw, I tried it with the orange pad and m105 (on a test spot) it did very little if anything at all.

So I made the move and purchased a daS6 pro its similar to a PC but with a slighter larger motor (many aussies use them). I also ordered some surbuf pads while I was at it.
Car Care Products / Mint ProTools / Car Accessories / Buffing Machines / RO Polisher DAS6-Pro

Again I did a test spot with orange and m105 using junkmans technique with the scales and all. it did remove a lot more defects, but I still wasn't happy. I experimented and tried more pressure and different things but the results got no better. I guess this may be really hard paint or I am just not doing it correctly.

So I then tried the Surbuf and read about how do use it in various forums, one of which was the Kevin brown method which was very informative and I based my technique on his.
These cut much harder then the orange and did a very good job. I fine-tuned a technique that seemed to work best for me.

I primed the pad with 3 pea drops then worked it onto the surface with the machine off. I then did 2 passes and found that medium to heavy pressure worked well for me, I could tell how much to apply by the sound of the machine it sounded bogged down a bit but not so much as it would stall (still spinning quiet fast).

after just 2 passes the polish turned to dust so I misted the paint surface with water and re spread the polish with the machine off. 2 more passes where then completed before it would be total dust again. Most time there was not much polish to remove as it seemed to be all dust. but what was left was hard to remove. Alcohol and water made short work of it though. I cleaned the pad before applying more polish and moving to the next section. I found that this was needed as the fibres in the middle where laying flat with the pad and it would not cut as well.

In the fluro light the results looked very good I still didnt remove all the defects but 95 percent where gone. On really bad areas I repeated 2 to 3 times until I was happy.

The sun showed that my technique had left some very light swirls. But junkmans technique with the m205 and white pad finished it off nicely.

I then added a coat of zaino z2 and was happy with the result. I have not completed the whole car yet just doing small parts at a time.

There are still some minor imperfections and very slight swirls if I look hard with the direct sunlight on it. But I am very happy to get it looking this good, it looks wet and the flake in the metallic really stands out now.

Thanks to all very much for the advice

here are a few pics, terrible I know but I only had the camera on my phone. I have only done from behind the back doors. still a long way to go. I will post more when the car is complete.

cheers

[Junkman2008]

It sounds as if you are either working in direct sunlight or outside were the temperature of the paint's surface is hot. Which is it?