Flex 3401 or rupes bigfoot.

[Rsurfer]

Something ain't right - and I don't think it's the machine. I have a 15 and can polish pretty much any area that the pad fits on my BMW M Roadster with it. This car has small panels, and a lot of odd body lines.

I think you just may need more time behind the machine. I did the washer mod - only later to remove it after talking to the Rupes' USA rep about it. I didn't really notice a difference. But, by that time I had more experience with the machine.

When something isn't working for me, I try to figure out if "it's me" or the products I'm using. So, I do some research to see if it's working out for others and try to see how they made it work. A lot of guys have successfully used the 15/Duetto on a variety of cars. I'm not sure why you replaced the 15 with the Duetto - as there isn't a huge difference between the operation of the machines.

Yes, I agree the machine has the potential to stall and it could use more power. However, the 3401 isn't perfect either. There have been some people who have had difficulties with the 3401 finishing down on certain softer paints. This could be do to the standard sized 8mm rotation and the direct drive. There have also been some issues with some machines getting hot and some problems with the interchangeable backing plates. The 3401 may also not be the best machine for microfiber pads - if you use them. Also, since it's direct drive, you are loosing the safety factor of the free spinning spindle mechanism.

None of these machines are perfect - but they all are pretty good. I think you should try to master the machine instead of just replacing it with something else - which could possibly have another potential issue.

Really the easiest machine to use of all of them is the Griot's 6" IMHO. It has the safety/confidence of a free spinning spindle mechanism, the ability to use almost any size pad, and the power to never stop spinning on complex panels.

Did you see the thread on the new LC pads for large throw machines (Rupes) I don't know of any other 21mm throw machines? It had a vid showing how this pad would not stop spinning on curves. Wonder why AG deleted this thread as it was a LC pad which AG carries. No one has it as yet. Very similar to the Hydro Tech Pads as they only come in 3 colors.

[Tato]

Saw the video, can't comment on anyone's technique...

The Rupes has an 'anti-spin' mechanism, which serves for something not very well stablished if we want to talk about polishing performance.

Heard someone saying it's a 'security' feature, to avoid pad spinning when polisher is not in contact with surface. This may help saving pads from flying away because of the larger throw, if someone by accident keep the polisher off the surface with the trigger pressed.

However, teaching a friend how to polish (he used my rupes on his car), just after letting him alone for 1-2 minutes, he took the polisher off the surface without turning it off. The pad (LC Flat white pad) simply 'exploded' ahhah, nothing bad happened, but this kills the purpose of the 'anti-spin' mechanism, IMO.

That said, it's time to people developing polishers think about 'PRO-Spin' mechanisms, not the opposite, again, my opinion.

Back to the anti-spin mechanism, on the other hand, it was one of the features that most impressed me. When the polisher 'SENSES' the right contact, it frees the backing plate, and SPIN.

You got to have that 'feeling', and when you start feeling it, you've just understood how to use a Rupes Polisher.

That's why Rupes Engineers says against the washer mod, or better saying, at least, admit it to be unnecessary.

The washer mod is a 'PRO-Spinning' modification which in my experience and use, gives a little edge if you want the most performance from your tool.

By the way, if you don't put the pad on the surface properly, you'll be not giving the proper feedback to your tool, even using the washer.

That said, I heavily recommend using the Rupes without the washer mod, 'mastering it' and understanding it's limitations, then insert the washer and never look back.

On vertical panels, even the 21 (which is somewhat bulkier than the Duetto) can be hold one-handed, but I never recommend that.

Using both hands (especially on vertical / inclined) panels is trivial to properly place the tool and gives it the feedback needed to spin the pad.

No, I'm not saying my Rupes never stalls, it's rare, more common maybe the slowing of rotation (but still plenty) on complicated parts.

When I have a stall, a bit of contortion / better positioning myself, even hanging the body over to position the polisher correctly may solve it.

Rupes also doesn't need a lot of pressure, if any in some cases. On trick areas, a bit more pressure may help the tool sensing proper positioning.

**On vertical panels, a bit of pressure is desirable because on horizontal parts (hood, roof, etc) you have the tool's weight acting and on verticals you have to (at least) reproduce this weight, adding a bit of pressure.

If you tilt forward or backward (not placing the pad flat and the tool ~parallel to surface) the Rupes may slow down or stall more often.

Tilting the pad, using ~edge or half the pad, although not recommended, maybe a way of dealing with difficult areas. Never do things you don't know exactly what you'll be doing, please.

When it won't fit, I may get the Flex.

Hope that helps,

Kind Regards.

[mbpress01]

Appreciate the comments. I have spent approx 20-30 hrs with a 15 and the duetto and did exactly what you said above - tilt the pad so that at least 1/2 the pad makes contact and then I got it to spin but certainly not great and the correction was minor. I really think on flat panels this machine is a dream. The hood, trunk and roof worked flawlessly and the correction was strong and efficient. I don't think the debate will ever be settled but for me now I have to go with efficiency and an AIO machine works best. I will be ordering the flex - just need to figure what pads and product combo works best.

I can see how great a flex and rupes mini combo would be. You use the flex on doors, roof trunk hood unplug and move to the mini for the tight areas. I think the whole process could be improved by 10 hrs if this combo works. The 6.5 plate for the larger flat panels would be perfect and would really be efficient. Thx again for the all the comments.

[Mach1USMC]

Just to clarify- when I say "bogs" on every detail I don't mean on every panel all over the vehicle. Just in certain places. Obviously I wouldn't be in business if it didn't work at all. It's just not what I expected after hearing how amazing Rupes machines were. that's all. I'll try some different techniques and see if that's the issue.

Perhaps the washer mod would help me too? I dunno.

[hernandez.art13]

Yeah the washer mod helps a good amount.

Also, I've been thinking, is it such a bad thing if the machine stops spinning? Meaning, isn't that an alert to let you know that your technique needs to be adjusted?

What if the machine kept spinning in a tight area and you were at a incorrect angle/location on the car? Probably wouldn't be happy if you kept working that area because the machine kept spinning.

That's why I designed So many different size polisher. To always have the pad spinning and just switching from machine to machine, 2,3,4,5,6,7 . And always trying to keep the pad to paint as flat as possible and spinning...., plus when it stops spinning its in indicator to me that something needs adjusting. Just my thoughts.

[Mach1USMC]

Yeah the washer mod helps a good amount.

Also, I've been thinking, is it such a bad thing if the machine stops spinning? Meaning, isn't that an alert to let you know that your technique needs to be adjusted?

What if the machine kept spinning in a tight area and you were at a incorrect angle/location on the car? Probably wouldn't be happy if you kept working that area because the machine kept spinning.

That's why I designed So many different size polisher. To always have the pad spinning and just switching from machine to machine, 2,3,4,5,6,7 . And always trying to keep the pad to paint as flat as possible and spinning...., plus when it stops spinning its in indicator to me that something needs adjusting. Just my thoughts.

I get what you're saying- I wish my assistant was still here so I could show a vid of what I'm talking about. There's been times where I am putting extremely light pressure on the machine on 6 while on an odd shaped panel and as soon as I put just a little more pressure it bogs. Even my PC didn't do that! My take is it just doesn't like odd shaped panels. I'll have to get another backing plate so I can fit a smaller pad but the last time this happened was when I was buffing the brake duct on a F430. Granted it's oval shaped and pretty tight but the pad fit flat with very little pressure. No spin whatsoever. Am I expecting too much?

Thanks for the input btw

[VISITOR]

With the Flex, you can guarantee even results in virtually any panel design.

If I had to choose only one to have, it would be the 3401.

However, the 3401 is an 'AIO' machine capable of handling virtually any job by it's own.

[Nick McKees37]

Did you see the thread on the new LC pads for large throw machines (Rupes) I don't know of any other 21mm throw machines? It had a vid showing how this pad would not stop spinning on curves.

Wonder why AG deleted this thread as it was a LC pad which AG carries.

No one has it as yet. Very similar to the Hydro Tech Pads as they only come in 3 colors.

You mean this thread?

Up Close & Personal: Lake Country HD Orbital Pads for Rupes Polishers

...or this one?

Lake Country HD Orbital Pads

We don't "delete" threads. If a thread contains content that is against forum rules, we simply move it out of public view.

[hernandez.art13]

I get what you're saying- I wish my assistant was still here so I could show a vid of what I'm talking about. There's been times where I am putting extremely light pressure on the machine on 6 while on an odd shaped panel and as soon as I put just a little more pressure it bogs. Even my PC didn't do that! My take is it just doesn't like odd shaped panels. I'll have to get another backing plate so I can fit a smaller pad but the last time this happened was when I was buffing the brake duct on a F430. Granted it's oval shaped and pretty tight but the pad fit flat with very little pressure. No spin whatsoever. Am I expecting too much?

Thanks for the input btw

I really like this video and my Rupes behaves pretty similarly to this Rupes. (minus the pads)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwE0dkYwTOA]Lake Country HD Orbital Pads - YouTube[/video]

Do you have a picture of the area you say you were putting very light pressure and it then bogged down?

Also, I've found that a Rupes 21 with the original 6" bp and washer is plenty. If I need something smaller, I just switch machine. I've grown not to like the Rupes 21 with a 5" bp.

[Rsurfer]

You mean this thread?

Up Close & Personal: Lake Country HD Orbital Pads for Rupes Polishers

...or this one?

Lake Country HD Orbital Pads

We don't "delete" threads. If a thread contains content that is against forum rules, we simply move it out of public view.

Did the thread break forum rules?