Motorcycle Scratches on New Motorcycle.

[Mike Phillips]

Nick Chapman had an article on MOL quite a while ago where he had a super-soft Colorado that wouldn't finish out no-way, no-how. After trying everything in his considerable arsenal he stumbled on a solution that most would never consider...he used a yellow LC cutting pad with M205 and produced an incredible, flawless, mirror finish.

I tried that outside-the-box, thinking backwards method and discovered a cutting pad with a finishing polish or a finishing pad with M105 produced an excellent finish! Who woulda thunk it?

Nick is a sharp guy and his word is as good as gold... I'm glad to have him as a good friend and our friendship dates back to 2006 when he flew in to Meguiar's from Dallas, Texas to attend one of my Meguiar's Detailing 101 Classes.


Open Class for Members of Meguiar's Online! - November 11th, 2006!

We have two special guests that have flown in from Dallas, Texas just to attend the Meguiar's Detailing 101 Class!

Nick and Jim from Dallas, Texas!





You can read Nick's comments about the class on page 2 of the above thread.


You're point just illustrates how important it is to do some testing..

"You don't know what you can do until you try"


Then dial-in a system that works to one small area and once you find a combination of pad, product, tool and technique that works to one small area, then you just have to simply repeat or duplicate the process to the rest of the panels.

[jhkunkel]

OK; All very good info.
Now I have the itch to purchase a new polisher from Auto Geek, so here comes the obvious.......Which is the best, or better, which do you reccommend? I know the Flex is more expensive then the others, but does that tranlate into a better polisher?
Someone else reccommened the Griot's, but I don't know anything about them.
My old Porter-Cable 7335 seemed to be OK, till I started reading some of the great articles.
Just looking for some thoughts.
Thanks,
Jim

[Mike Phillips]

Just finished your article on "How To Maximize Your DA Polisher" and you have described the problems I am having perfectly.

The pad stops turning with very little pressure when using a pad bigger than 4 inches.

I know from experience there are literally millions of these first generation Porter Cable polishers in garages all across America and a lot of people get frustrated because they know the tool works, they just aren't sure how to work the tool.

These first generation polishers have removed the swirls out of millions of cars and I've done a few of them so I know they work but they work best with smaller, thinner pads.

Hope you enjoyed the article.

The 4 in pads I have been using are the Lake Country's Hydro-Tech Foam Pads so I think there may have been some mis-understanding on the cutting power and color of these pads which I think are different than the others.

The H-T pads are Orange, Blue and Red.

My bad... I assumed you were using the open cell LC pads either the CCS or Flat and in that case the blue would have been a soft, finishing pad. And... you're right, in the Hydro-Tech line, which are closed cell foam pads, the Cyan or blue are aggressive cutting pads.

(I cover this in my how-to book by the way.)

Anyway today I got the Cobra Cross Groove Flex pads from you folks. 2 red, 1 orange, 1 black and 1 white, and now I'm totally confused?!? I take it that my old PC may not be strong enough for this type of pad, correct?

Not really, it's because they are somewhat thick as compared to the 5.5" Hydro-Tech thin pads and the 5.5" CCS and Flat pads by Lake Country.

When it comes to any Porter Cable style polisher, the smaller, thinner pads are going to rotate better and rotate better longer as they become wet with product. I think I cover this in my article below and also in my how-to book.

Thin is in... New Lake Country Hydro-Tech Low Profile 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Foam Pads






[QUOTE=jhkunkel;630280]
So, getting back to basics; what do you suggest?

I'm talking cars and the bike here. In another post I mentioned 2 Lexus ES-350's that I own and always attempt to maintain in pristine condition.

Confusing, huh?

Once again, Thanks for any help, suggestions, advice, instruction, etc, etc.[
/QUOTE]


Getting a new DA Polisher is going to make you happier than struggling with the first gen PC.


Griot's
The Griot's has the most power and it actually can do a pretty good job with 6.5" pads, the Griot's Brand pads area actually considered thin pads but we only carry two types, a polishing and a finishing. It still is more effective with 5.5" pads.


Meguiar's
The Meguiar's is actually a very good tool. They had some glitches in the past with build quality but that's normal for any new tool brought to market. It has the Cruise Control Feature and the soft start feature which are both cool features. Meguiar's matches their polisher to 7" pads and it will rotate them but like all DA style polishers, it's just simple math, a smaller pad diameter means less surface area and these types of tools can maintain pad rotating better with smaller pads than with larger pads.

Thickness and thinness area also key factors. Thicker pads absorb and dissipate the energy coming out of the tool and this shows up as anemic pad rotation.


Porter Cable
The newer, Porter Cable 7424XP is better at maintaining pad rotating than either models of the first generation. I see people make comments about how it's not powerful enough but for that it's worth I use it ALL the time and in my opinion used correctly it's a great tool. I have all three of these tools in the studio and almost always grab the PC first but that could just be because I like how the body fits my hand the best, especially when machine waxing vertical panels with one hand.


Pad Rotation
Also just to note, pad rotation is only important when you're trying to remove below surface defects like swirls and scratches. when you're applying a finishing wax or a show car wax it's not important to have the pad rotating because all you're trying to do is spread out a thin coating over the finish.


Flex 3401
If you really want some power but without the risk of burning paint or instilling holograms or buffer swirls, then consider the Flex 3401. It's a DA polisher but it's direct drive and this means you cannot stop the pad from rotating.

It's larger than the above tools and only slightly heavier. Lake country just introduced a new backing plate adapter system that enables you to put a 4" pad on this tool in in my opinion this really makes the tool a whole lot more versatile because so many cars have thin panes with either an edge or a raised body line to either side and it's a good Best Practice to NOT buff on edges or body lines.

Now with the 4" backing plate you can buff more safely.

Here's a thread about the backing plates and in it I include some pictures to show these benefits.

Flex XC3401 Changeable Backing Plate System - IN STOCK!











The Flex 3401 is a very different type of tool but one thing for sure, using smaller pads, both 5.5" and 4" sizes really make it an easy tool to use.

Using 6.5" pads doesn't make it a hard too to use but you'll find that if you don't hold the pad flat to the surface the tool will try to walk on you. The good news is this means the tool is SELF-TEACHING in that it teaches you to hold the pad flat and that's sing good technique.

I have all my students use all tools in my class so instead of just reading about these tools the get first hand experience and then they can make up their own mind which tool is best for them.

With the Flex 3401 you get plenty of power. You can do any polishing project faster. You don't have to worry about burning through the paint like you can do with a rotary buffer, or instilling ugly swirls like you can do with a rotary buffer.

You can remove swirls, polish the paint to a high gloss and even machine apply wax.

See this thread,

1957 Chevrolet Belair Extreme Makeover - Flex 3401 & Wolfgang Smackdown!

(Below are a few pictures to give you an idea, there are a lot more plus a full write-up and videos in the actual thread)

This car was a swirled-out mess...




The below picture is a good representation of what's called holograms or rotary buffer swirls.





Swirls removed




Machine Waxed
There is no finishing pad in the new LC Hydro-Tech Pad system at the time of this project so we used a Meguiar's W9207 Softbuff Finishing pad on the 3.0 setting to apply the Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0











Also... we're shooting a brand new Flex DVD next week, so there will be a how-to video on how to use this tool available within the next month.

I also have my next Detailing Boot Camp Class on May 5th and 6th where you can use and test out all the tools.

Detailing Boot Camp

And just like I do my best to type out detailed replies to questions on this forum to help others be successful via the forum, I do my best to give everyone the best hands-on learning experience possible in person.

[Mike Phillips]

OK; All very good info.
Now I have the itch to purchase a new polisher from Auto Geek, so here comes the obvious.......Which is the best, or better, which do you reccommend? I know the Flex is more expensive then the others, but does that tranlate into a better polisher?
Someone else reccommened the Griot's, but I don't know anything about them.
My old Porter-Cable 7335 seemed to be OK, till I started reading some of the great articles.
Just looking for some thoughts.
Thanks,
Jim

Ha ha...

While you were typing the above... I was typing a reply to an earlier post in this thread but I think I answer all your questions...

[jhkunkel]

Mike,

Yep, you answered all my questions.

I'm probably going to get the Porter Cable 7424XP, since it is comparable to my 7335.

Now i just have to fly down to FL for a hands on class.

Thanks,

Jim

[crxman2010]

Thanks, very good info. I think I'll take your advice and do the 4" Crimson with 3.0 and go from there.

Yeah, I think my Porter Cable is on it's last legs; it served me well when working on other cars I had through the years.

I always did my motorcycles by hand in the past, but now wanted to move up to machine, that is why I got the H-T 4" pas.

Thanks again,

Jim

Don't forget to post how it goes