New GG DA, Wolfgang Twins, and Hydrotech ???s

[Sunstealer]

I received a new Griot's Garage DA buffer (with the long cord) for Christmas. I also purchased the Wolfgang Swirl Remover Combo, some new microfiber towels for wiping off polish, and two each of the Hydrotech Cyan, Tangerine, and Red 6.5" pads (the Autogeek Christmas special). My 1988 Chevy K1500 will be my test subject, but I have a couple of questions.

I remember reading that the Wolfgang twins were actually very nearly the same as two Menzerna products. Does anyone know which of those are equivalent? There seems to be lots more info available on the Menzerna than the Wolfgang.

The Total Swirl Remover is the more abrasive and the Finishing Glaze is used to remove micro marring from the TSR, correct? The pads go from most abrasive to least as: cyan, tangerine, red, correct? Depending on swirls, I could use different combinations on a test area until I find the least abrasive method that will remove the swirls?

Does the Finishing Glaze have any fillers or can I go straight to a sealant afterwards? I use Zaino AIO-Z6-ZCS-Z8 as my last step on all my vehicles and the maintain with Z8 and OCW. I plan on using ZAIO on the red pad.

Thanks.

[weavers]

Auto geek cutting chart:
Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart

[Flash Gordon]

Next time order the Megs twins.

Your going to love your new machine

[Kurt_s]

The WG Twins are nice products and what I purchased when I first got my PCXP. TSR is the more abrasive but is not a compound like M105 or Menz Power gloss. I had to work hard with 6.5" Orange CCS pads to remove the swirls and scratches in my white bimmer with TSR (but I did it). I have since moved to either M105 or Megs Ultimate Compound for correction, and either 5.5" flat pads or now HT pads instead of the 6.5" CCS.

Finishing Gloss 3.0 is a very nice polish and leaves a very nice gloss. It uses Menz's nanotechnology and is a great complement to TSR. Take a look at the AG chart and you will get an idea about comparable products. I don't want to give you incorrect information about how similar or dissimilar they are to Menz polishes.

I go between Optimum and Wolfgang polishes for the most part, with the Optimum being the easiest to use with the least dusting. I just picked up Megs M205 to try as M105 has become my "go to" compound for tough projects. Dang, I have a lot of polishes now.

If you find yourself struggling with TSR even after reducing the size of the working area, Megs UC is available OTC at auto parts stores like PepBoys and it doesn't have the learning curve of M105. It's also pretty inexpensive and easy to use. If you are willing to learn the ways of M105, it can make quick work of challenging situations.

Enjoy your new DA!

[Sunstealer]

Thanks for the info. I didn't want to start with the M101 since it seems a little more difficult to use from what I have read. Now, if the weather around here will ever warm up!

[arenared]

Megs UC is available OTC at auto parts stores like PepBoys and it doesn't have the learning curve of M105.

I just put some UC through some pretty tough paces (also Griot's DA). I was left desiring something more aggressive. I just purchased the M105. What kind of learning curve is there? UC was pretty much foolproof. And for the OP, if you need it, UC is dirt cheap.

To the OP, your assumptions look correct. The Autogeek chart shows the similar Menzerna products, but I have yet to see any formulation differences listed. On the Menz pages, AG references the Wolfgang twins for smaller sizes, so that's also a good indication.

Regarding a 1988 truck, if it has not been previously well-maintained, TSR and FG might not be aggressive enough. I also did not find the cyan HT pads very durable. Depending on the level of correction, you may need more than two. With just TSR, you should probably be OK with in-between cleaning.

[Dr Oldz]

I'm pretty sure the Wolfgang Twins are very similar to Power Finish(PO 203) and Super Finish(PO 106 FA)!

[Bunky]

What shape is the paint in? You will not likely know until you do a test spot which you can quickly do...just wash off a section and do it. You are not committed to finish it.

WG TSR is similar to Menz. SIP.

[Mike Phillips]

I remember reading that the Wolfgang twins were actually very nearly the same as two Menzerna products.

TSR similar to Super Intensive Polish
FG is similar to 106FA

The Total Swirl Remover is the more abrasive and the Finishing Glaze is used to remove micro marring from the TSR, correct?

If the TSR leaves micro-marring, often times it doesn't but if it does then yes, follow with the FG.

The pads go from most abrasive to least as: cyan, tangerine, red, correct? Depending on swirls, I could use different combinations on a test area until I find the least abrasive method that will remove the swirls?

Correct to all questions.

Does the Finishing Glaze have any fillers or can I go straight to a sealant afterwards?

Lots of confusion and misinformation over the word fillers and lubricating agents, some people would say there the same but here's the deal... if you're trying to make paint look beautiful, (and that is the goal isn't make the paint look good?), if you remove the "lubricating agents", then the abrasives will abrade and scour the paint. Think about using sand and water to make paint look good... probably wouldn't work would it?

All abrasive products must use "something" to lubricate the surface while the abrasives abrade or take little bites out of the paint. Water-based doesn't mean there are zero lubricating agents as water by itself is not perfect, anyone that thinks it is can replace the oil in their car's engine with water and see how long that lasts.

As for removing the residual lubricating agents after using ANY product, that's a discussion that is brought up all the time, here's the short version, if the manufacture of the wax, sealant or coating states the surface must be chemically stripped naked before using their product in order for their product to work then follow the manufactures directs.

If not then it will come down to your research on the topic or personal preference. To helps shed some light on this topic I just wrote and posted a brand new article. Have a read...

Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding


Here's a brand new related article...

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results

I use Zaino AIO-Z6-ZCS-Z8 as my last step on all my vehicles and the maintain with Z8 and OCW. I plan on using ZAIO on the red pad.

Thanks.

I think Sal states that his sealants need the paint to be chemically stripped in order for the sealants to bond, check his website or contact Zaino if you're not sure and then plan your approach accordingly.

I just put some UC through some pretty tough paces (also Griot's DA). I was left desiring something more aggressive.

UC is pretty aggressive, I know some that say it's as aggressive as M105 and Meguiar's states it's less aggressive, either way, it is "close". So if UC isn't getting the job done you can step down to M105 change something else in the process, perhaps pad, perhaps technique, perhaps tool.

Here's an article on the aggressiveness of SMAT products I wrote a year or so ago... I'm updating it for 2011...


The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!


Super Micro Abrasive Technology = SMAT
From left to right, the most aggressive to the least aggressive SMAT products


From the most to the least aggressive...

M105 Ultra-Cut Compound/M95 Speed Cut Compound = The same in abrading power
Ultimate Compound
ScratchX 2.0
M86 Solo Cut & Polish Cream
D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream
SwirlX
M205 Ultra Finishing Polish

The rest of the article is worthy of ready... the above is just an excerpt...

I just purchased the M105. What kind of learning curve is there?

Some people have a difficult time with it, some people don't. So some factors that seem to influence a person's experience is temperature and humidity, other factors are going to be technique. One of the most influencing factors is cleanliness, that is cleaning your pad often to remove spent product and removed paint. People ask me how often is often and in a perfect world you would clean your pad after each application otherwise you will be be adding fresh product to the paint on your pad that the previous application of the product removed off the car.

If you think about it... this would be true for ANY product that abrades the surface.

So clean your pad often, always wipe spent product off the surface. Prime clean DRY pads before starting, that is apply some of the product you're using to the entire face of the pad, this does two things,

• Moistens the pad

• Ensures 100% of the working face of the pad is working for you from the very moment you turn the power on.

See this thread for some tips and techniques for working with M105

Problem working with Meguiar's M105 Ultra Compound?

Regarding a 1988 truck, if it has not been previously well-maintained, TSR and FG might not be aggressive enough. I also did not find the cyan HT pads very durable. Depending on the level of correction, you may need more than two. With just TSR, you should probably be OK with in-between cleaning.

Agree. Also, anytime paint is neglected enough to need correction of below surface defects it's usually neglected enough to need to be clayed, so be sure you check to see if the paint needs claying and if it does clay before doing any machine correction work.

I'm pretty sure the Wolfgang Twins are very similar to Power Finish(PO 203) and Super Finish(PO 106 FA)

Correct.

What shape is the paint in? You will not likely know until you do a test spot which you can quickly do...just wash off a section and do it. You are not committed to finish it.

Doing a Test Spot is probably the most important part of any detailing project when you have not previously worked on the project car.

I recommend running a single tape line down a horizontal panel so your eyes can clearly see any visual changes to the side you're testing on to give you feedback as to whether your process is working or not and if it is, to the degree it's working.

Like this,



Usually, if you're have a good process and you're using good technique, then you'll at a minimum remove all the shallow below surface defects, (swirls, scratches water spot etchings), and leave behind the RIDS

Don't focus on removing on all the RIDS unless this is a show car and you own it or the owner understands the risks and will accept them and pay your for your time, materials and labor to completely remove them.

Here's an article on RIDS if you're not sure what the acronym means...

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...

[Kurt_s]

I just put some UC through some pretty tough paces (also Griot's DA). I was left desiring something more aggressive. I just purchased the M105. What kind of learning curve is there? UC was pretty much foolproof. And for the OP, if you need it, UC is dirt cheap.

UC is fairly fool proof compared to M105. M105 cuts a little faster but UC allows you to work longer.

M105 learning curve. Read up on the Kevin Brown method. Don't use too much product with the compound. You won't get the working time of UC or several other polishes. Mike comments above in the thread regarding M105 and pad priming. Don't get compound on the outside edge of the pad (vertical side of pad) as it dries and dusts. Be careful about getting the pad too damp when using M105 or using a "just washed" pad that is not completely dry as M105 can turn into a cement like substance that sticks to the paint. You'll need a QD or IPA to get it off the paint.

There have been a few threads where people use a few drops of baby oil to tame M105 tendency for short working time. BobbyG mentioned it above. I have not tried baby oil but at least one person commented that it might lesson 105's aggressive cut a bit. I have mixed a little Opt polish into the pad on occasion to extend working time. I'm not really sure if it helps or hinders.

These are some of the things that I can think of right now.