Best Scratch Remover Combo for a DA?

[Belo]

Sorry for a topic that's been beaten to death, I'm a little heated at the moment. I had to vent. Thought I was handling this quarantine with my 3 kids pretty well... and then today I find a door length scratch down the side of my black 19 silverado's door. bikes...

Anyhow, I threw a yellow pad on my pc and the most aggressive stuff I have is fg400 and hd-one. It helped, but I feel like I can do better?

I can feel the scratch with my fingernail, so I know I cant fix it completely but hoping to soften it...

thanks fellow detailers, quarantiners and frustrated dads

[SNP209]

Wet sanding seems like the only option at this point, Apex Detail has some very good videos covering and demonstrating this exact topic. Good luck.

[Belo]

Thanks man... not sure I'm up for wet sanding though

[Mike Phillips]

Wet sanding seems like the only option at this point, Apex Detail has some very good videos covering and demonstrating this exact topic. Good luck.

Does Brian explain what I explain to everyone in this article so they don't sand and then buff through their car's incredibly THIN clearcoat and turn a Mole Hill into a MOUNTAIN?


Here's my info....




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


The majority of cars being manufactured today and starting since the 1980's use what's called a basecoat/clearcoat paint system. With this system, a clear layer of paint is sprayed over the top of the basecoat which is also the color coat or the layer of paint that has pigment in it. If the car has a metallic finish then the metallic flakes are also in the basecoat.

The basecoat doesn't offer any gloss or shine and in fact it's dull or matte looking after it's sprayed. The basecoat gets it's gloss, shine, depth and reflectivity by the spraying of the clearcoat layer of paint over the top of it. This is why if a person removes too much clearcoat when buffing and they expose the basecoat it will appear to be a dull round or oval spot on a body panel. The part of the paint system that adds beauty has been removed revealing the dull or matte basecoat layer of paint.



Just how thin is the clear layer of paint on a factory paint job?

The factory clearcoat on a new or modern car measures approximately 2 mils thin.

The average post-it not is around 3 mils thin.





What does this mean?

This means the factory clearcoat on a new or modern car is thinner than a post-it note. The next time you have a post-it note in front of you, feel a single post-it note between your fingers. Like this...





This experience will drive home the point as to just how thin the clear layer of paint is on modern car with a factory paint job.

It should also drive home the importance of using the least aggressive pad, product and even tools to get the job done.

When I say, get the job done, the context of this usually means someone is buffing out a car to remove paint defects like swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation to make the paint and thus the car look better.

By using the least aggressive products you "get the job done" while leaving the most paint on the car to it will last over the mechanical service life of the car.

If you're working on your own cars and you're reading this you're already ahead of the game by reading the AGO forum and probably being a member so you can ask questions and get help.

If you're working on customer's cars take a professional approach as a service to your customers.


If you're reading this and you're going to do the work yourself or hire a detailer then do some research and make sure you hire a detailer that knows this type of stuff because the factory clearcoat on your car is thin.







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








IF not, he can use the info in my article to warn people.


I can't count how many times someone without experience and without KNOWING how thin the factory paint is on their DAILY DRIVER is - screws it up by trying to sand a scratch flat and then buffing out their sanding marks.

[Mike Phillips]

Anyhow, I threw a yellow pad on my pc and the most aggressive stuff I have is fg400 and hd-one. It helped, but I feel like I can do better?

Normally, if after you can't remove a scratch after compounding with a true compound, and Menzerna FG400 is a true compound, then I would probably learn to live with it.

I can feel the scratch with my fingernail, so I know I cant fix it completely but hoping to soften it...

Maybe hit it with a fresh foam cutting pad and the FG400 a couple more times and call it good?

thanks fellow detailers, quarantiners and frustrated dads

I hear ya man...

[Mike Phillips]

I'd suggest reading this to, I do my best to explain what you're dealing with....



When to stop buffing - Or - How far should you go to remove swirls and scratches?


Will this buff out?

[Mike Phillips]

One more thing to share so everyone reading this understands what it looks like when you sand and buff through THIN factory paint.


From this article, see post #3

What it looks like when you buff through the clearcoat - Burn Through - Strike Through - Mike Phillips



A guy sent me the below pictures via FB messages, asked me if this was burn-through? (buffing through the clear layer of paint).


He was trying to remove a scratch.








It's never fun telling anyone that "yes" that looks like you've buffed through or burned-through the clearcoat and exposed the basecoat.

It's even less fun when you tell them the only way to fix it is to re-paint the panel or the affected area.

[Mike Phillips]

And heck, I've written another article on this topic,



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Wetsanding removes paint - Compounding removes paint - Polishing removes a little paint


I've been typing the above for YEARS now on this forum in an effort to educate people of something that is VERY BASIC.

1. Wetsanding removes paint
2. Compounding removes paint
3. Polishing removes a little paint

Most of the time when I type out the above, it's in the context of someone that has NEVER wetsanded before and for whatever their reason, now they are THINKING of wetsanding their car.

Then as they share more information we find out the car in question has the FACTOR CLEARCOAT.


The factory clearcoat on a modern car is around 2 mils THIN. A Post-it Note is around 3 mils thin.


This means the clear layer of paint on your car is THINNER than a post-it note.




Here's my article with pictures that makes it easy for you to wrap your brain around this idea.


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips






So for about 99.9% of the population... you should NOT be wetsanding the factory finish on your car because,

1. Wetsanding removes paint
2. Compounding removes paint
3. Polishing removes a little paint

And sooner or later, when you're running your buffer over the paint to remove the sanding marks or the holograms from a rotary buffer/wool pad compounding step - you're going to turn your buffer off, turn it over and see the COLOR of the basecoat on the face of the pad.


This is a REALLY BAD SIGN.


Now you get to repaint that panel.


95% of ALL wetsanding is done to CUSTOM cars with CUSTOM paint jobs where the paint is THICKER.


So watch some more YouTube videos and read some more hero stories on Facebook and go ahead and sand down your factory finish. And if and when you sand or buff through the clearcoat layer, don't ask how you can fix this with more buffing, that's not how you fix missing clearcoat. You repaint.







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer and if it were up to me, car manufacturers would put more paint on new cars - but they don't.


I see a lot of guys always telling other people how to wetsand their cars but I don't see them include any of the information I just shared above.

Disclaimer - I don't watch APEX videos so maybe Brian does include all the information I share on the topic of wetsanding factory thin paint.



Hope this helps...

[Belo]

Normally, if after you can't remove a scratch after compounding with a true compound, and Menzerna FG400 is a true compound, then I would probably learn to live with it.





Maybe hit it with a fresh foam cutting pad and the FG400 a couple more times and call it good?





I hear ya man...

As always I really appreciate your help Mike. Would meguirs ultimate compound be any more aggressive or worth trying than fg400?

[Bearcats98]

@Belo. I feel your pain. I wish you had included pictures as this is an ongoing battle I have with my wife. She wants the bikes in the front of the garage so the kids have to move them past the cars EVERY time they ride. I want the bikes in a locked shed behind the house. I lose. One day I am going to be in a "I told you so" position but unable to say it. Any married person knows that position.

Good luck in taming the intensity. I know when my vehicles get "things" I can see that "thing" like a red strobe light...even under layers of dirt. Good think I like bourbon and beer! LOL!