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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by Neatfreak2000
You generally seeing a ‘warmer’ look with wax and a glass/wet look with ceramics?
With wax: I see wet, warm with deep reflections. If I’m in my garage looking at the hood, it appears I can reach inside the paint to touch my garage ceiling (reflection). Contours of a car show smooth light reflections.
With ceramic sprays (coating lites or maintenance) I see bright, sharp reflections that sit on the surface... like the way glass reflects. I’ve never thought about reaching my hand into the paint looking at ceramics, but I’m more focused on whether the reflection is actually brighter than the real life object being reflected. Contours seem sharper to me as well.
So I think carnauba and sealants look wetter, just my opinion. Glass and mirrors don’t give me the illusion of wetness. Soft, flowing reflections do. This is all subjective and my opinions are formed by me obsessively staring at my paint from familiar angles and unfamiliar angles, while constantly trying new things. Particularly on my 3 vehicles of metallic silver, metallic black and solid black.
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by Jayfro
I’d prefer calling it self therapy! Working on your car, mowing the yard, etc...standing back, drinking your favorite beverage and saying “damn that looks good”!
Just my opinion!
Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
This sums up the entire argument, Jay.
But of course, we may still need our battle armor........
It is no coincidence that man's best friend cannot talk.
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Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by acuRAS82
So I think carnauba and sealants look wetter, just my opinion.
So out of the gate you see sealants (I assume you mean ceramic sealants) and wax as both wet and warm.
But then the maintenance sprays (high silicone content vs high wax) turns the wet looking ceramic into more glassy looking while the wax maintenance sprays keep the waxed car wetter looking?
That’s an interesting observation.
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by Neatfreak2000
So out of the gate you see sealants (I assume you mean ceramic sealants) and wax as both wet and warm.
But then the maintenance sprays (high silicone content vs high wax) turns the wet looking ceramic into more glassy looking while the wax maintenance sprays keep the waxed car wetter looking?
That’s an interesting observation.
Sorry, the statement about wetness (“So I think carnauba and sealants look wetter, just my opinion“)was standalone and I was really talking about traditional sealants. Most sealants don’t have a warm look IMO. But I do believe they look wet. And mostly candy coated, mostly smooth, somewhat sterile.
As far as ceramic sealants, I’ll keep it simple and say some look more like traditional sealants (candy-coated); some look more ceramic (glassy). So combining the looks, I would say ceramic sprays/sealants are not warm, have some glassy, sharpness and some candy coated, wet, smoothness.
I hope I’m not confusing things. True coatings, some sprays like PA High Gloss, etc. are really glassy in my eyes. True sealants, and some sprays (BF SiO2 Sealant) are really candy coated looking. Most other sprays are somewhere in that spectrum in my eyes. I don’t see many SiO2 sprays have the warm, deep carnauba look added in, but I do see some carnauba look in some ceramic waxes (Synergy, Nano, EcoCoat Wax), but these are also part glassy.
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by acuRAS82
I have to disagree that a well prepped car won’t allow someone to tell the difference between wax and a coating. Wax vs wax, sure. Coating vs coating, sure. But I think the ceramic and carnauba wax looks are so different, that someone who does this hobby could probably pick out which side is which after a quick stroll around the car..
I’d venture to say I’m in the minority of the people on this forum who hardly sees a difference between the looks of different LSPs.
I don’t know if it’s just my eyes or what, but they just all look the same to me. I haven’t ever bothered to try and pick up on the nuances though, because I like to live in my little world of blissful ignorance.
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
I will forever from here on out have a ceramic coated car. That being said nothing more stunning than a freshly polished car with nice layer of ‘nauba.
Also with that being said a ceramic coated car with freshly topped with PA cosmic is a a thing of beauty and my LSp combo of choice...for now....
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by alnuman
I’m talking about the DIY ceramic application not the process done by the dealer when you first buy the car.
Never applied ceramic before so doing my research. Ok, so forget most of the benefits about ceramic coating like a hard shell around your car, protection from tree sap, longer time between application, easier to was the car, etc. I’m interested one thing - Shine! So here is the question:
- Lets say you applied one half of your car with a ceramic coating like, oh say, Meguiar’s ceramic product and the other half of of the car with Meguiars best wax product and then you drove your car up my driveway. When I go out to greet you would I be able to tell the difference?
and as a follow up-
If the answer to the first part is - yes the wax would be shinier, could you then apply wax to the ceramic side and throw the remaining ceramic in the trash can never to be used again? Would you have to remove the ceramic first?
I know I’m over-simplifying it but remember I’m only interested in shine for now.
Thank you.
•Believe it or not, the majority of vehicle
owners don’t worry about the purpose
of LSPs—they serve as sacrificial barriers.
-Just like you stated above: They want shine!
•To obtain “shine”, you clean and polish
the paint to the nth degree. [Again: adding
a sacrificial barrier (LSP) to such smoothed
out surfaces is to protect this refinement for
a certain time frame that’s particular to each
class/type of LSP.]
-Just a FYI:
Some of the shiniest vehicles I’ve
ever detailed had exactly no LSP
applied to them. True story.
•The perception that a given LSP makes the
surface more shiny, glossy, warmer, deeper,
glassy, etc. is, IMO, due to the science of Optics.
-To that point:
My rods and cones are unique to me.
The same holds true for you.
•After all, if:
“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.
-Then why can’t the following also
be considered true?:
‘Shine is the results of the beholder’s polishing’.
Bob
"Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
~Joaquin de Setanti
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
^^Per Bob, some people like the clarity of freshly polished cars. I typically can’t wait to bend the light differently with an LSP. Doesn’t change the surface quality, but can change the way light reflects and refracts. Nuances, but ones I can typically see under certain times of day or lighting or angles.
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Originally Posted by acuRAS82
^^Per Bob, some people like the clarity of freshly polished cars. I typically can’t wait to bend the light differently with an LSP. Doesn’t change the surface quality, but can change the way light reflects and refracts. Nuances, but ones I can typically see under certain times of day or lighting or angles.
I believe you misinterpreted my posting.
My posting represented my opinion regarding
the correlation, if any, between LSPs and shine.
Nothing more; nothing less.
Just curious:
When you bend the light with an LSP, does it
add to; lessen; or have no affect on the existing
level of shine? TIA
Bob
"Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
~Joaquin de Setanti
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Re: Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?
Don't know what LSP means but.....
Well I did it - applied a ceramic sealer for the first time. Here are my thoughts:
1) First and foremost, shine. No difference whatsoever between it and wax. So in that sense a waste of time. Now my only decision going forward is do I continue the ceramic sealer route or go back to wax. If someone could say that future ceramic applications would add more layers of protection I may stick with it (since I now know shine is a mute point as suggested in earlier replies).
2) I used a ceramic sealer by NexGen. Anyone know about it/used it? I selected it because they say it has the most Si\whatever of anyone else on the market. It was pretty easy to use.
3) I used Formula 88 to first wash the truck and then as a clay lub. At the end of claying I noticed my clay bar was starting to break apart as if it was disintegrating. Pieces were falling off and it wasn't as pliable as in the beginning. Is this something normal for a claying job or was the Formula 88 breaking it down? The clay I was using was from a poplar brand that everyone is aware of.
4) So now what? I have this ceramically clean shiny truck (just as shiny as wax - sorry I had to say it again), is there anything else to do or do I just wait for it to get dirty and just wash each time until time to re-ceramic/wax it?
By the way - how do you guys clean your microfiber towels? The wife says ain't no way they going in the washer/dryer - whether I detail her car or not! :-)
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